TV Station Channel Brands After DTV Conversion?

[landtuna]

Wow!  I never thought such a simple question would take so many directions.

Personally, I think stations should be required to use their real broadcast channel for identification.  Yes, the initial confusion might be huge but would not last long.  Something akin to changing a telephone number. 

No, no, and no. Here's why.

Radio stations change dial positions all the time and they brand their frequencies.  People don't seem to have a problem following an FM-to-FM move or even an AM-to-FM.  Are you telling me TV viewers are not as intelligent as radio listeners?

Of course, radio people don't wear those expensive channel brand lapel pins so maybe it is a cost consideration after all.

[Scott Fybush]

Radio stations change dial positions all the time and they brand their frequencies.  People don't seem to have a problem following an FM-to-FM move or even an AM-to-FM.  Are you telling me TV viewers are not as intelligent as radio listeners?

And the last time every radio station in a market changed frequency at the same time was....

(There is a correct answer to this question - let's see if anyone besides W9WI gets it...)

[tripinva]

The 1940's?  When FM moved from 44-50 MHz up to 88-106 MHz?

- Trip

[Scott Fybush]

The 1940's?  When FM moved from 44-50 MHz up to 88-106 MHz?

- Trip

Right decade, but that's not the move I was thinking of. FM receiver penetration was very low at that point - maybe 10-15% in the very best FM markets - so the move "upstairs" didn't affect very many listeners. It was more a curiosity than anything else.

Additionally, FM stations had already gone through several iterations of branding in just their first decade, none of them closely linked to their transmitting frequency. Here in Rochester, for instance, W8XVB (experimental at 42.8 mc) became W51R (commercial at 45.1 mc) became WHFM (commercial at 45.1 mc), so by the time WHFM migrated up to 98.9 (or "channel 255," as it was branded on many of the radios of the era), it was just one more in a series of ongoing changes.

[kenglish]

I think that changing the stations' "brand" would be just as confusing as McDonalds offering a "Whopper", and Burger King selling "Big Mac's".

The most important issue should be that people know that their stations are no longer physically restrained to a particular RF channel. Just let them know that you really broadcast on a UHF or a VHF-HB channel, and leave it at that. Then, they know what they need for an antenna.

You can provide a list, maybe on the station's website, to indicate the exact numbers for the folks who might have a need to know, such as installers....or someone who has to occasionally enter the numbers directly when scanning new channels in.

It's a lot nicer for the translator customers, too! And, BTW, what will happen to the "Channel 9 (on Cable)" station when the local Cable outfit goes all digital? Maybe they should step back from the channel number stuff for a while, and call themselves something different (without numbers).

[Lkeller]

I think that changing the stations' "brand" would be just as confusing as McDonalds offering a "Whopper", and Burger King selling "Big Mac's".

The most important issue should be that people know that their stations are no longer physically restrained to a particular RF channel. Just let them know that you really broadcast on a UHF or a VHF-HB channel, and leave it at that. Then, they know what they need for an antenna.

Isn't this happening somewhat, already?  NBC has been busy re-branding their owned and operated stations as "NBC New York,"NBC Bay Area," and so forth. At least in the Bay Area, channel position is no longer mentioned at all. 

I presume this is not just because of the digital conversion, but possibly also to prevent confusion between over the air, cable and satellite.  For years now, we've been in a world where cable channels are branded differently than broadcast channels.  I think that consumers can deal with it...I know I can.

[Scott Fybush]

And, BTW, what will happen to the "Channel 9 (on Cable)" station when the local Cable outfit goes all digital? Maybe they should step back from the channel number stuff for a while, and call themselves something different (without numbers).

Some stations, especially those that started out on UHF and have multiple cable systems in the market, do indeed do that. One of my locals is simply "Fox Rochester," for instance, and down the road a bit, WUTR in Utica is just "WUTR."

But to answer the digital-cable question...nothing will change. My local Time Warner system still has analog service, but all the analog channels are duplicated on QAM digital, and my cable box tunes to those channels instead of the analog channels. It matters not a bit to the end user - "13" is still "13," whether the box is tuned to an analog signal at 210 MHz or a digital signal at 798 MHz.

Ken notes that it would be confusing if McDonalds started selling Whoppers and BK started selling Big Macs. Indeed it would - but the real analogy to what's happening in the DTV conversion would be even more confusing. Imagine if Wendy's started selling Big Macs and McDonalds started selling some "Megaburger" nobody had ever heard of - but by the luck of the draw, BK was able to keep on selling Whoppers.

That's the kind of disruption to the established competitive balance that would result from using RF channels instead of remapping - it's one thing if EVERYONE in the market shifts, but when a few stations get to keep their existing branding they've had for decades, while others get sent up to TV Siberia, it throws a wrench into viewing patterns in a way the industry would very much like to avoid.

(Again, you're talking about businesses, small businesses in some cases, that have already been asked to spend a million dollars per station or more on new equipment, some of which will be useless again after 2/17/09, not to mention giving up hours and hours of airtime to promote the switch and running the risk of losing some viewers in the conversion process.)

And I haven't even gotten into the really confusing channel swaps like Baltimore, where the station that's been known for 62 years as "Channel 2" will be occupying the RF spectrum that's been used for 60 years by the station known as "Channel 13" - while the station known as "13" moves upstairs to UHF 38.

You'd (well, not you, Ken, but the original poster) really say it's less confusing to have WMAR go from its established "Channel 2" to its longtime competitor's brand of "Channel 13" - while sending WJZ, the station that's been "Channel 13" since 1948, up to the unknown brand of "Channel 38" - all because some viewers' receivers (maybe 15% of total viewers) will now be tuning WJZ in at 614 MHz instead of 210 MHz and WMAR at 210 MHz instead of 54 MHz?

[w9wi]

Radio stations change dial positions all the time and they brand their frequencies.  People don't seem to have a problem following an FM-to-FM move or even an AM-to-FM.  Are you telling me TV viewers are not as intelligent as radio listeners?

And the last time every radio station in a market changed frequency at the same time was....

(There is a correct answer to this question - let's see if anyone besides W9WI gets it...)

March 29, 1941.....  (Trip, you've got the right decade but the wrong band.  Actually, in a few markets one or two stations didn't change but in most markets they indeed all moved...)


We've been remapping channels since 1939. 

When you try to watch WSMV channel 4 analog over an antenna, you can't tune your TV to channel 4.  There is no such physical concept.  Your TV contains a lookup table: when you select "channel 4" your TV knows you really mean "67.25MHz" - it tunes to that frequency, and finds WSMV broadcasting there.

The same thing happens when you try to watch WSMV's digital signal.  When you select "channel 4" your TV knows you really mean "192.31MHz" - it tunes to that frequency, and finds WSMV broadcasting there.

The difference is that with analog TV, the lookup table is pre-programmed at the factory; with digital, the table is loaded when you scan for channels when the TV is first set up.  You had to scan for analog channels anyway, so there is quite simply NO DIFFERENCE in behavior as far as the viewer is concerned.  It's all behind the scenes, in your TV's firmware.

[Scott Fybush]

And the last time every radio station in a market changed frequency at the same time was....

(There is a correct answer to this question - let's see if anyone besides W9WI gets it...)

March 29, 1941.....  (Trip, you've got the right decade but the wrong band.  Actually, in a few markets one or two stations didn't change but in most markets they indeed all moved...)

We have a winner! 

(But then, I knew Doug would get that one immediately.)

Even at that, there was a very real difference - and some similarities - between the NARBA AM frequency shift of 1941 and the DTV conversion.

The NARBA shifts of 1941 didn't upset the competitive balance on the radio dial. Everyone stayed in the same relative positions - if you were on the bottom of the dial on March 28, you were still on the bottom of the dial on March 29 - and at the same power levels. (Many stations shifted again after the war as allocations rules were relaxed and directional antennas became more common, but that's a different story.)

And because most radio listening took place in the home, and there were only a handful of stations in most markets, the 3/29/41 shift really was a "remapping" for most people. Look at a typical home radio of the era, and while you'll see a dial marked with frequency, wavelength or both, one of the most prominent features will be a row of buttons above or below the dial, usually 5 or 6 of them, each marked with a pre-printed callsign insert.

When you bought your radio, the shop preset those buttons for you, and after that you didn't really think about tuning to "760" or "860" - you pressed the buttons marked "WJZ" and "WABC." And when those stations moved from 760 and 860 to 770 and 880, you had the local radio repairman (who must have had some very busy, and profitable, days in late March 1941) come by the house and adjust your buttons to the new frequencies. That was "remapping," in an early way, too.

The widespread use of frequency branding came a decade later, when those console radios with the buttons gave way to transistor radios with little dials marked only in frequencies. Look at any radio station ad from before that, and the frequency, if mentioned at all, was an afterthought.

We've been remapping channels since 1939. 

When you try to watch WSMV channel 4 analog over an antenna, you can't tune your TV to channel 4.  There is no such physical concept.  Your TV contains a lookup table: when you select "channel 4" your TV knows you really mean "67.25MHz" - it tunes to that frequency, and finds WSMV broadcasting there.

The same thing happens when you try to watch WSMV's digital signal.  When you select "channel 4" your TV knows you really mean "192.31MHz" - it tunes to that frequency, and finds WSMV broadcasting there.

The difference is that with analog TV, the lookup table is pre-programmed at the factory; with digital, the table is loaded when you scan for channels when the TV is first set up.  You had to scan for analog channels anyway, so there is quite simply NO DIFFERENCE in behavior as far as the viewer is concerned.  It's all behind the scenes, in your TV's firmware.

Well put, sir!

[tripinva]

And I haven't even gotten into the really confusing channel swaps like Baltimore, where the station that's been known for 62 years as "Channel 2" will be occupying the RF spectrum that's been used for 60 years by the station known as "Channel 13" - while the station known as "13" moves upstairs to UHF 38.

You'd (well, not you, Ken, but the original poster) really say it's less confusing to have WMAR go from its established "Channel 2" to its longtime competitor's brand of "Channel 13" - while sending WJZ, the station that's been "Channel 13" since 1948, up to the unknown brand of "Channel 38" - all because some viewers' receivers (maybe 15% of total viewers) will now be tuning WJZ in at 614 MHz instead of 210 MHz and WMAR at 210 MHz instead of 54 MHz?

Baltimore isn't one of those.  WJZ is returning to 13, WMAR is moving to WJZ-DT's pre-transition channel 38 from 52.

One that is like that is in Tampa, FL.  WTVT-13 is operating on DT-12, and WEDU-3 (DT-54) will end up on DT-13.  And West Palm Beach has WPEC-12 on DT-13, with WPTV-5 (DT-55) on DT-12 after the transition.

Your point still stands., just saying. =)

- Trip