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Author Topic: Country In NYC?  (Read 1822 times)
Mac Daddy
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« on: June 20, 2009, 07:21:00 PM »

Do you think it could work if they used a top 40 approach similar to 95.7 The Wolf in San Francisco. That station has had some impressive ratings for a country station in a not so country market (top 10 in 25-54 demo). What do y'all think, could it work?
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neo11
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2009, 09:35:29 PM »

Top 10 25-54 isn't terribly impressive, especially if the station's specific demos skew towards the older part of that curve.

I think even the much-hated Jack FM had sneaked up to 9th or 10th 25-54 here in NYC.
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murphmac
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2009, 11:02:48 AM »

I believe that it will work if they used the concept that I've adopted for my internet country station. My station is on I-Tunes and is number one in country #24 overall on the live 365 internet radio network. My main concept is that country listeners are not like top 40 listeners. First of all they are (older 35+). It has been proven that they listen much longer than your average top 40  listener. My station averages 1+ hours per listener. You must program today's hits which I do and add in lots of new releases but I don't repeat them over and over until it makes you nauseous! I add some oldies from the 70's and 80's and  some "hall of fame" cuts like Marty Robbins, Tammy Wynette and Patsy Cline. Despite what the "bright" consultants say - THIS WORKS!!!!! Consultants will say that the playlist should be short and songs should repeat every two or three hours! THIS DOES NOT WORK FOR COUNTRY!!!! They are ridiculous!  My station is CONSTANT COUNTRY KRS. You can find it on i-tunes under Radio then the "Country" category. You can also find it at www.live365.com/stations/constantcountry89 or at www.edgewaterradio.freeservers.com.

I know we have been constantly fed with the thoughts that you can't mix new country with old country. I don't know who came up with that idea. If you frame the "Gold" or "hall of fame" cuts properly, it works and the audience actually looks forward to hearing them!!

Jim Murphy
Constant Country KRS
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TheBigA
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2009, 12:42:31 PM »


Despite what the "bright" consultants say - THIS WORKS!!!!! Consultants will say that the playlist should be short and songs should repeat every two or three hours! THIS DOES NOT WORK FOR COUNTRY!!!!


I'd suggest there's a difference between what works on an online station and an on-air station.

Regarding repeating songs every 2-3 hours, there are only a handful of country on-air stations that do this.  KSD in St. Louis is one that comes to mind.  What it does is it drives down the median age of the listeners.  Younger listeners prefer more repetition than older listeners.  They also want more currents.  A typical country station, one that aims at listeners in their late 30s to early 40s, plays its Top 5 songs in heavy rotation once per daypart.  That means once every 5 hours.

Regarding the playlist size, that's inside baseball.  The size of the playlist isn't as important as the songs on the list.  Radio is a song medium.  The quality of the song is important.  So if a station has a full playlist, and George Strait releases a song that's obviously a huge hit, you add it regardless of the playlist size.  The make-or-break for a station isn't the currents it plays, but the recurrents & gold.  That's where the rubber meets the road.  Those songs change all the time, and the playlist needs to be fluid enough to recognize that.

As for classics, that's a function of the market.  Everybody loves Johnny Cash, but not everybody wants to listen to his music.  A lot of stations have tried adding one classic an hour and promoting it as a special feature.  Other stations do classic shows on the weekends.  There are lots of ways to do it.  I agree that NY would be a place where you'd need to play a lot of classic country.

The example of The Wolf in San Francisco is interesting.  That used to be a huge country market in the 90s.  KSAN was always a Top 10 station, and KNEW-AM was successful with classic country.  But since those stations left, no new station has been able to duplicate the ratings they had in the 90s.  You have to believe country fans are still there.  But just because you build it doesn't necessarily mean they will come.

The problems with country in NY are multiple.  For one thing, the format has been gone for over ten years, so there's an entire generation of people who haven't heard huge hit songs by artists who haven't crossed over.  There's a perception problem about the music from both the audience and advertisers.  There's a geographical problem, in that the country audience is mainly in NJ and LI, and not the 5 boroughs. And lastly, there's a facility problem, in that which station would be willing to blow itself up, start from scratch audience and advertiser wise in a market as expensive and as critical as New York?  The stations most likely to do it don't have the signal coverage to guarantee success.  The best chance for country is an AM station, but we all know about music formats on AM.  So that's why country remains off the air in NY.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 12:49:00 PM by TheBigA » Logged
DavidEduardo
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2009, 01:04:08 PM »

I believe that it will work if they used the concept that I've adopted for my internet country station. My station is on I-Tunes and is number one in country #24 overall on the live 365 internet radio network.

Radio ratings don't work the same way Internet statistics work. Radio is a combination of total listeners plus the time the listen weekly, which gets you the share of local audience and the number of people that are tuned in at any given time. You see, advertisers can't evaluate the total reach... they need to know how many people are listening at any given time in a specific market.

Until a cross-media (web streams, iPhone streams, etc) ratings system is developed, radio will be bought market by market.

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My main concept is that country listeners are not like top 40 listeners.

Nobody in radio ever suggested they were. Top 40, called CHR since the 70's, is principally an 18-34 female play, while country is a 25-54 play, and is actually 25-64 (but 55-64 is unsalable, so we don't look at it much).

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First of all they are (older 35+).

That is the art of saying the obvious. Top 40 developed on a teen base...

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It has been proven that they listen much longer than your average top 40  listener.

Proven where? In many cases, like KIIS in LA and WHTZ in NY, the adult TSL for CHR rivals that of country stations in the PPM ratings. A lot depends on other factors, like competition, etc.

Cuntry listeners may listen longer per incident, but CHR listeners tend to come back a little more often. It evens out.

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My station averages 1+ hours per listener.

A day? A Week?

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You must program today's hits which I do and add in lots of new releases but I don't repeat them over and over until it makes you nauseous!

If a listener wants to hear the big hits, then a station should play them often.

Quote
I add some oldies from the 70's and 80's and  some "hall of fame" cuts like Marty Robbins, Tammy Wynette and Patsy Cline. Despite what the "bright" consultants say - THIS WORKS!!!!!

Consultants don't say that... listeners do. If a station wants 25-54 listeners, they test the music with people who like country in that age range, and if a song does not do well in the demo they want, it is not played. Generally, the 25-44 part of a country audience will not want to hear Earle Flatt and Lester Scruggs.

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Consultants will say that the playlist should be short and songs should repeat every two or three hours!

Listeners determine the playlist on country stations. Generally, it is between 600 and 800 songs, and big hits will play every 4 hours roughly. That's none too often, given that the listeners will want to hear them often.

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THIS DOES NOT WORK FOR COUNTRY!!!! They are ridiculous! 

Your proof that something else works is anxiously awaited. What is on country radio is there because radio stations have the $100 k a year or more it takes to research listeners and each and every song.

Quote
I know we have been constantly fed with the thoughts that you can't mix new country with old country. I don't know who came up with that idea. If you frame the "Gold" or "hall of fame" cuts properly, it works and the audience actually looks forward to hearing them!!

Radio does not feed things to listeners, the listeners, upon being asked, tell radio what they want, song by song, and in overall blend.
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“Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.”  Winston Churchill. The chronicles of radio, www.americanradiohistory.com where you will find an assortment of broadcast publications and magazines from the 20's through the early 80's and ratings data from 1997-2009.
yossefgershon
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2009, 12:52:39 PM »

Here we go again. In 2002 when y107 left alternative media was not yet a factor.Today, you can download  freemp3 stream cuts from wpur-cat country.You can make cassettes from internet radio using a fm transmitter and a boom box.You can synch your ripped songs unto your mp3 player.You can buy  a cambridge soundworks hd radio and TRY to listen to 103.5 hd2---I live in midwood and the ONLY station that is a problem is ktu-hd2.Who needs a country station anymore??? My daughter who is 15 and is gonna spend july in camp listening to thunder 102.1 WOULD LOVE A NYC COUNTRY STATION.Ihave been listening to country since 2/26/73, the day WHN,of blessed memory,went country--I am 57 yrs old and have given up any/all hope--nobody cares about my demo!!!!!!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 12:54:59 PM by yossefgershon » Logged
Justin Case
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 05:43:09 PM »

If there were enough people excited about Country, who actually lived in NYC, to make a country station viable there would be one... what about NYC besides the Naked Cowboy at Times Square (who usually doesn't sing country music btw) says New York would be target for country music? 

The demographics?  NOT REALLY 
The music scene?  NOPE
Country record sales?  HARDLY

Am I against a country station?  No, I grew up in suburban/rural NY, where country was radio GOLD in the ratings... but the City has been without it for a long time and doesn't seem to miss it.  When country events happen, its mostly people coming into town to see it, not actual people from the City.  I just think it'd be an expensive format for NYC to get the star power to make a splash and get attention and the return might not be there to level they want.

Then again people have been asking these questions on here since this site started.
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John Waywoods
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 06:25:48 PM »

It would totally work if they did not have to sell ads.
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karsonwithak
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 07:37:59 PM »

Do you think it could work if they used a top 40 approach similar to 95.7 The Wolf in San Francisco. That station has had some impressive ratings for a country station in a not so country market (top 10 in 25-54 demo). What do y'all think, could it work?

As for as I recall reading, The Wolf is not in the Top 10 25-54.

K~
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briancraig
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 09:23:55 PM »

Just for the record, David, it is Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs.

David is obviously one smart radio guy, but probably won't be consulting WSM anytime soon Cool
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