The END returns

[ambandwidth]

Why does everybody suddenly put all this creedence in the PPM? Oh yeah, it's infallable  , there's been no complaints in other markets (sic).

Re:"Maybe Lazlo wasn't so bad after all" - revisionist history my friend, holds as much water as, oh, say
"Maybe Keller,Rosetti,No Name,etc. weren't so bad after all"

[TVradioguru]

The facts? Early 2000's the End was constantly pulling a mid 3 share 12+ and even higher in key demos. It was by far recognized by radio folks as 1 of the top 5 alt. stations in the country. Can the same be said now?

And if their listeners don't want jocks that run their yapper, how do you explain Carolla pulling in much higher numbers than any of their other dayparts?

Other than being interested in one particular Alternative Rock station, you don't know much about how radio works do you?  The aforementioned being made clear by your last post, let me assure you that nobody sells buys or sells advertising based on 12+.  To site your 12+ example is silly to say the least. 

KNDD sells 18-34 demo, primarily males.  That's the typical demo alternative format stations target.  Unlike you, I have been receiving rating data for several years from Seattle.  PPM has been very good to KNDD of late.  But even under previous diary methodology and much to your dismay/statements, KNDD has been pretty solid in demo for quite a while.  Adam Corolla did okay to be sure, his demos were spread out past the 18-34 target, which would be a tougher sell.  If I were the GM knowing what I know now about who is actually listening, I would go lots of music in the morning with a slight bit of Daily Show kind of news and traffic.  Forget trying to revolve a morning show around a single personality.  That ship has sailed and sunk.

Look TU don't like the station?  Super!  Get out that wonder of technology, your IPod and make your own playlist.  There is no need to be embarrassed further with your claims of knowing how a station is doing, when it's painfully obvious that you indeed have no clue.

[Dick Skinner]

Wow!  Tough room.

[Goldilocks94941]

Wow!  Tough room.

Unfortunately, "Guru" is really more of a "moghul."  He chastizes everyone who challenges the notion that the sales and accounting departments get to dictate program content, since that's the only vision most of the pro-consolidation NAB-board-sitting I've got mine and you're fired crowd can offer.   And look at what the public gets now when three GMs run 90% of the signals in a market, and they still whine they can't make it pay off and pay for an airstaff and news department. 

Frankly I doubt he's ever held an airshift or worked at a function where you interact with the listeners face to face.  I've asked him publicly in a civilized tone to engage this board as a place for open thinking, whether or not you agree with what someone says, without the sniping.  However, his chastizing of certain posters gets really old, and usually only serves to stifle discussion (notice how often his is the last posting on a topic?).  The "you don't know what it takes to run a business!" rants (oh, really?) have the same effect as leaving a turd on the dinner table.  i.e. "everyone leaves the room with a bad taste in their mouth."

The posters of this message board (no matter how naive nor how well-connected they are) are being treated by some of these declarations the same way as to-may of our commercial radio brethren treat the listeners to any of the frequencies they control on the dial.  "Take it or leave!"  And I think we all deserve better.

[dtuba]

Exactly! Great post Goldilocks. This forum exists for all facets of the broadcasting chain, not just the GM/GSM/AE's of the local radio industry. Last time I checked it was radio-info.com not radiosalesinfo.com.

Let us dream, dammit.

[TVradioguru]

You can certainly dream all you want, however when you start making claims that from a factual perspective aren't true, whether because you don't work in the business or turn the discussion into a "radio is dying" because.. then count on actual radio professionals to jump in and call you on it.

If TU whatever were to give an opinion about how they would like to hear something or another on KNDD, that would be perfectly reasonable.  But to go on an on about how a station is somehow on deaths door from a ratings or business perspective, like they are some authority on the matter with insider knowledge, that is when I (or others here) will call them on it.  Opinion is free, deception is wrong.

[Goldilocks94941]

You can certainly dream all you want, however when you start making claims that from a factual perspective aren't true, whether because you don't work in the business or turn the discussion into a "radio is dying" because.. then count on actual radio professionals to jump in and call you on it.

If TU whatever were to give an opinion about how they would like to hear something or another on KNDD, that would be perfectly reasonable.  But to go on an on about how a station is somehow on deaths door from a ratings or business perspective, like they are some authority on the matter with insider knowledge, that is when I (or others here) will call them on it.  Opinion is free, deception is wrong.

Gu - I actually do agree with you on this.  I think some postings reflect the same kind of hyperbole and over-reaction that seems to dominate the culture of commercial broadcasting -- and a lot of its programming.  Some specifics on what a person does or doesn't like about a particular station's presentation will give us all something to discuss that gets us away from our own pre-conceptions, which are obviously personal and not an objective way of measuring things.  And it ought to be more than just a couple of songs or artists one does or doesn't personally like. 

Likewise I'd like to suggest that a lot of the content and presentation styles of many radio stations can be up for discussion -- and what they broadcast can be modified -- without upsetting the tenets of the business model practiced by most commercial broadcasters.  A sales department whose income lives and dies by a half point change in the latest Arbitron ratings is also not very wise or capable of creative ways of making a living.   Options for making a living while operating a radio station that listeners will go out of their way to listen to -- now there's a thread I'd like to see someone start.  Of course, if a conglomorate is having to pay off heavy debt in an unreasonably short amount of time for a shareholders meeting, and it costs air staff their jobs as a way of showing a leaner "bottom line" for next quarter's figures -- well, maybe that corporation needs to diversify into running casinos, brothels, and other highly profitable short term rackets that the mafia so aptly control - 'cuz reality means you have to give something a chance to work, and be in it for the long haul, or else your business model has failure built into its very foundation.
 
Just my over-arching opinion on some of the root causes of why so many professional broadcasters, among others,  are uneasy with the current state of the industry. 

[radioprofessor]

This thread was merely observation about the PPM parameter regarding THE END.  The station has seen the greatest percentage increase in the PPM compared to the diary.  Male numbers, whether PPM or diary tend to move around a bit.   It is my view THE END got lucky since I do not believe Adam C. would have performed well in a PPM environment.  By playing more music and going back to what made the station work 15 years ago, THE END has become a ratings factor in my humble opinion.  Alternative radio, whether it be Houston, LA or Seattle is a solid performer in the PPM, when done correctly.  Was just reviewing pre-currency data out of San Diego and the Alternative station there is looking very strong as well.

[TVradioguru]

You can certainly dream all you want, however when you start making claims that from a factual perspective aren't true, whether because you don't work in the business or turn the discussion into a "radio is dying" because.. then count on actual radio professionals to jump in and call you on it.

If TU whatever were to give an opinion about how they would like to hear something or another on KNDD, that would be perfectly reasonable.  But to go on an on about how a station is somehow on deaths door from a ratings or business perspective, like they are some authority on the matter with insider knowledge, that is when I (or others here) will call them on it.  Opinion is free, deception is wrong.

Gu - I actually do agree with you on this.  I think some postings reflect the same kind of hyperbole and over-reaction that seems to dominate the culture of commercial broadcasting -- and a lot of its programming.  Some specifics on what a person does or doesn't like about a particular station's presentation will give us all something to discuss that gets us away from our own pre-conceptions, which are obviously personal and not an objective way of measuring things.  And it ought to be more than just a couple of songs or artists one does or doesn't personally like. 

Likewise I'd like to suggest that a lot of the content and presentation styles of many radio stations can be up for discussion -- and what they broadcast can be modified -- without upsetting the tenets of the business model practiced by most commercial broadcasters.  A sales department whose income lives and dies by a half point change in the latest Arbitron ratings is also not very wise or capable of creative ways of making a living.   Options for making a living while operating a radio station that listeners will go out of their way to listen to -- now there's a thread I'd like to see someone start.  Of course, if a conglomorate is having to pay off heavy debt in an unreasonably short amount of time for a shareholders meeting, and it costs air staff their jobs as a way of showing a leaner "bottom line" for next quarter's figures -- well, maybe that corporation needs to diversify into running casinos, brothels, and other highly profitable short term rackets that the mafia so aptly control - 'cuz reality means you have to give something a chance to work, and be in it for the long haul, or else your business model has failure built into its very foundation.
 
Just my over-arching opinion on some of the root causes of why so many professional broadcasters, among others,  are uneasy with the current state of the industry. 

And I agree with you Goldi (is the world ending?) 

Debate and discussion is always healthy.  And even though I for one believe in the broadcasting model, I'm always up for listening, discussing or answering questions where I am able.  In our particular company, we do a lot of research even in a down economy.  We ask for opinions all the time.  But not to pat myself on the back for being a good listener or anything of the sort, as long as the discussion is honest and based on personal opinion, I'm open to pretty much any suggestions.