Lew Dickey is too scared to read this!

[beatlenut]

For the past 3 years, it's been a rainy day and night on the FM dial in Nashville! In my honest opinion, one corporate group has made this mess in this market on FM, and it's not Clear Channel. I think you know whom I talking about.

I agree with you.  Oldies can work and make money.  If the Oldies ratings were slipping, it's because whoever was programming it didn't have the feel of the format.  Dave LaBrozie had a great sense of the format, and did great things with it.  I had KIDS calling me to make requests and dedications when I worked there.  That's how I know it crosses all age groups.  Their parents listen to it, their kids get a taste of it, and realize how great the music still is today.  Not every song from that era can hold up today, but so many do that don't get played because they don't get tested in the audience tests.  And who comes up with that list in the first place???  How many strong songs are missed because of these audience tests?

[scottwmro]

For the past 3 years, it's been a rainy day and night on the FM dial in Nashville! In my honest opinion, one corporate group has made this mess in this market on FM, and it's not Clear Channel. I think you know whom I talking about.

I agree with you.  Oldies can work and make money.  If the Oldies ratings were slipping, it's because whoever was programming it didn't have the feel of the format.  Dave LaBrozie had a great sense of the format, and did great things with it.  I had KIDS calling me to make requests and dedications when I worked there.  That's how I know it crosses all age groups.  Their parents listen to it, their kids get a taste of it, and realize how great the music still is today.  Not every song from that era can hold up today, but so many do that don't get played because they don't get tested in the audience tests.  And who comes up with that list in the first place???  How many strong songs are missed because of these audience tests?

Many songs are missed in audience test, due to most programmers and consultants have this "play it safe" attitude in mind. There are many songs from even today's era of pop music that is not tested. This problem goes back to the late 60's when program directors took away the freedom of the jocks. Our problem is we think we have to play songs that most likely appeal to all age groups, no matter what. Every person is different and programmers and consultants have not got that through their heads yet in the past 30 or so years.

The reason why WCBS-FM in NYC is not making money, and has lower ratings than their previous "Jack" format is because ad agencies think that NYC is nothing but a big ethnic blog and nobody is listening. That kind of thinking is wrong. What's right is WCBS-FM has many listeners in NYC on their new Oldies format, but the ad agencies make it appear the other way around, causing the station to have a bad cloud over it.

WCBS-FM did right by dropping the "Jack" format, and going back to what they were, but I haven't listen to the station on line yet and I'm wondering if the programmers are screwing something up? The "Jack" format gears to a more "narrow" audience and I've never been that impressed with it, even the one here in Nashville. Rumor was that South Central was taking the "Jack" format off in Knoxville and going back to Oldies. Now that was just a rumor I read only, no official word.

[radiodood]

Scott; You still don't get it. After at least two years of talking about this subject, you still refuse to understand that the tradional "Oldies" format is not coming back to 97.1 or any other station in Nashville. Radio is a business, and supposed to make money for the owners, much like any other business does. Oldies simply does not make money for it's owners. The demo's are not the desirable demographic the media buyers and agencies are looking for, and most radio sales people are not passionate about the format, and therefore don't understand how to sell it properly.

As for "Classic Hits", as ambiguous as that term is, it could do better, but even though we all like the 70's and 80's, neither of those musical decades had anywhere near the impact on people that the 60's music did. The 70's was a pretty bland decade, and much of the music has been forgotten..same with the 80's. The music of the 60's is now our generations "Music of Your Life" or Adult Standards and will not have much presence in many markets, due to the older demo's this music attracts.
If you want to listen to "Oldies" (another ambiguous format term), may I suggest that you check out Sirius and The 60's On 6.

By the way, 96.3 did not have ratings issues with the Oldies format. It was a sales issue, same with CBS FM and the many others that flipped formats. It was not ratings in most cases..it was lack of sales!!

[yugoidar]

Scott, how badly can the programmers be screwing up CBS-FM?  The station is ranked #2 (6+) in the ratings for the past several months behind WLTW-FM, the usual frontrunner.  Number 2 in a market of 15 million people with dozens of radio stations isn't a bad place to be.  I don't believe that the previous "Jack" format ever attained such a lofty position.

Further, it's fair to assume the station's 25-54 shares are even stronger - probably number one in more than a couple of categories.

It's my understanding that their billing is not what it used to be as an "oldies" station, but with radio revenues down any where from 15-30% across the country - that's likely to be a result of, at least in part, to the "great recession".  There are probably more than a few radio stations today that aren't billing what they did 5-10 years ago.

[beatlenut]

The 70's was a pretty bland decade, and much of the music has been forgotten...

I object.  The 70's has to be the most versitile decade of all.  It had THE most variety, and that's why it's so hard to make a format out of it that will work today!  I have a wide musical knowledge because when I grew up, you could find The Commodores AND Neil Sedaka AND Waylon Jennings, on one station.  There was so much of everything to pick from.  The 60's had a wide variety, too, but how many songs hit the Top 40?  How many of those songs stand out today?  How many can you play and keep an audience?  There's no way you can play all of them - it would be worse than JACK! 

Listening habits have gotten extremely narrow - that's the reason "American Top 40" isn't as popular as it was long ago.  Today’s young adults don't want to hear that variety anymore.  And that award goes to Wall Street - the record companies and radio stations (getting back around to Lew Dickey and those like him) find something that sells and they want to shove the same shit down our throats day after day.

[SwissVol]

I noticed the narrowing of songs, consultant tested or whatever, happening big time shortly after 1982 or so. Album rock radio started to become more narrow with each passing day. Over a period of time, I believe all formats eventually became narrowed down to a few hundred tunes pretty much along with the regular rotation of hit songs. I had hopes that the satellite radio and HD programs would shake things up enough to change things back in the direction of the old days. The good ole days of live DJs actually having some input on what was played and actually have some input on comments made about the songs that were played. Just my ole opinion here.

[radiodood]

Beatlenut;
The 70's music, as much as we all love it, is simply not as memorable as the 60's music is. In the 60's, we had lots of controversy, tragedy, and the rock & roll era hit it's stride when 4 guys from across the pond changed the course of music forever. No decade since has brought us music like that, nor was there so much political strife and racial tension as there was then. The music was a "soundtrack" to what the world was dealing with, and The Beatles personified it and gave us an unchangeable sound.

The 70's was a boring decade. Short of Nixon's resignation, and the disco revolution, that was about it. There are VERY few, I'll bet less than 100 songs from the 70's that stand up TODAY, yet, songs like Hey Jude and Let It Be, continue to be top testers in most music tests.
The 70's had such hearthrobs as The Osmond Brothers, The Carpenters, Barry Mainlow, and The Bee Gees. Granted, Top 40 still featured all styles of music..who could forget such great songs as "Rhinestone Cowboy", Glen Campbell, "Convoy", CW McCall, and "Annies Song" by John Denver!! Not saying all the music was like that, of course, there were some great songs too, but the 70's doesn't offer the same memories that the 60's did. 70's RADIO, is quite another story. The best era for Top 40 radio was in the 1970's.
Disco took over the format in the mid-late 70's, and then came the 80's..which musically was even worse than the 70's.

There have been several 70's only radio stations in the USA over the past 10-15 years..and every one of them failed, or have evolved into some form of Classic Hits. Most "70"s based stations that were briefly successful, leaned on the rock side of the format. They played songs like Hold The Line, Dreams, Take It To The Limit, and other similar songs. No one played Boogie Oogie Oogie or Shake Your Booty.

I like the 70's music too..but it is not and will not be a viable radio format. You will hear some of that music on a Classic Hits type radio station, but it will be mixed in with late 60's and early 80's songs.

As for CBS FM, yes, they have been marginally successful from aratings standpoint..but they are not billing what they did during their heydays. The format is not attractive to national ad buyers and agency types.

[TheBigA]

I really believe if an Oldies station is done "right" (and there's the controversial kicker), an Oldies station would do well, if only relatively well, and make a "decent-we can make a profit and still pay our staff above average pay because we're not greedy corporate radio" income.

Based on what facts? 

There are only a handful of "oldies" stations that are being done "right," according to the fans.  None of them are in markets the size of Nashville.  They're all bigger.  And even they piss off their fan base from time to time with particular songs or the occasional syndicated show.

The cost of doing a station "right" outweighs the potential profit.  It doesn't matter who owns it.  The only way to balance cost with revenue is using someone's syndication. 

[yugoidar]

As for CBS FM, yes, they have been marginally successful from aratings standpoint..but they are not billing what they did during their heydays. The format is not attractive to national ad buyers and agency types.

Radiodood, marginally successful?  Check the NYC ratings at the top of the page and see my post above. 

[beatlenut]

Based on what facts?  There are only a handful of "oldies" stations that are being done "right," according to the fans.  None of them are in markets the size of Nashville.  They're all bigger.

The reason of only a handful of Oldies stations being done right and they're all in larger markets than Nashville is because that's where your major talent who understands the Oldies format is found.  The younger kids getting into the business don't understand it, nor do they truly know what makes a hit record and keeps it on the radio for 40+ years.

And it's based on me understanding the above mentioned.  And no, I'm not going to teach you how to do it.  As you said, it would cost too much, and you don't have that kind of money.