(was AM 1550) WRGC/Sylva vs WCNN

[jovialjay]

He's talking about 680 in Sylva, N.C. - that's Art Sutton's station. Maybe Art will see this and give an update - I think it is moving to a lower dial position and increasing to 4300 watts - I think it's going to 540 Khz.
It will be a huge Western Carolina signal and may possibly clear the way for 680 in Atlanta to go ND daytime.
But it is only mildly directional anyway - it won't be noticeable to anyone but it will simplify the Atlanta operation somewhat. There's still that critical night pattern with 8 towers.......

WRGC (originally WMSJ) in Sylva was originally a 5-kilowatter on 1480. Their move to 680 took many years to get done. Charlie Smithgall had built WRNG/North Atlanta on 680 with 25kw omni. WMSJ's engineering to move to 680 with a kilowatt ND days, 250w DA-N (with two towers) had no technical obstacles as far as WRNG or WPTF were concerned. It was WRNG's competing application to increase to 50kw DA-D that created the first problem, with the later filed application to add 10kw DA-N that created the second problem.

Art Sutton told me the long, long story about this one day, and showed me a contract that was originally entered into by Jimmy Childress at WMSJ/WRGC and Charlie Smithgall at WRNG. While essentially a mutual interference acceptance agreement between the stations (which the FCC finally just gave in and granted...long story), the document also contains a "until the end of time" clause that says the following: If WMSJ/WRGC should ever move off 680 (to another frequency, the current licensee of WRNG (now WCNN) will make a substantial cash payment to the current WMSJ/WRGC licensee...essentially paying ALL the expenses required to move WMSJ/WRGC to another frequency.

With WRGC's proposed move to 540, the above means the Dickeys must cut a check to Art Sutton. It's my understanding that they have thus far refused to agree to make any payment.

About that, I can say this. Art Sutton will not be screwed with. WRGC now has a translator that provides excellent coverage in Jackson County, and he has plans to apply to put 540 in another market.

That means that 680 will remain in Sylva, still creating massive interference to WCNN. To put it another way, the Dickeys will NOT get a free pass to eliminate the interference and make changes to improve WCNN's signal.

Stay tuned.

 

[taylorengineer]

I would say something here but "someone" may nail another dead cat to my door.....
I will say my admiration of Art Sutton has increased measurably.......

[jabba17]

So WCNN has to pay WRGC even if WRGC moves to another freq of their own volition?

What realistically is the potential improvement for WCNN's night signal?  Reducing the directional nulls or removing them altogether?  Could WCNN go ND nighttime at the same power, or maybe reduced to 5k?  I'm not sure going ND daytime would be worth it by itself as the day signal isn't that bad.

[HGR1290]

WCNN-68- also has to protect WPTF in NC, among others. WCTT in Corbin KY is probably a factor at night as well. If the night pattern can be let out---it is not by very much.

Agree on the day pattern, leave it alone, its a good signal.

[w9wi]

What realistically is the potential improvement for WCNN's night signal?  Reducing the directional nulls or removing them altogether?  Could WCNN go ND nighttime at the same power, or maybe reduced to 5k?  I'm not sure going ND daytime would be worth it by itself as the day signal isn't that bad.

I suspect even just the Class A station on the frequency (KNBR San Francisco) is enough to prevent WCNN from going 5kw ND at night. 

[jovialjay]

I don't think WCNN could make any substantial changes were WRGC to vacate 680. What WCNN would gain is significantly less co-channel interference...a little at night, but mostly during critical hours...the two hours after sunrise and the two hours before sunset. That's when WRGC's skywave signal is most potent. 

[secondchoice]

About that, I can say this. Art Sutton will not be screwed with. WRGC now has a translator that provides excellent coverage in Jackson County, and he has plans to apply to put 540 in another market.
 

I think he is talking about Greenville SC.  Same channel spacing would be a little farther from Richlands VA.  The Florence SC station is only 250 watts day and he is going to build a directional system anyways for nights.   Ashville could be a target but with WWNC on 570 I don’t think this is possible.   If WRGC does vacate 680, WCNN could move their site much farther northeast.  How much is their current site worth versus land farther north.  Could WCNN go as far northeast to use Lake Lanier to “bounce” into Atlanta at night?  I think the lake ground conductivity has to be better than clay.

[jabba17]

If WRGC does vacate 680, WCNN could move their site much farther northeast.  How much is their current site worth versus land farther north.  Could WCNN go as far northeast to use Lake Lanier to “bounce” into Atlanta at night?  I think the lake ground conductivity has to be better than clay.

That's an idea...and that would get rid of that horrible Gwinnett County night null.

That land in Peachtree Corners that currently holds the 680 tower array has to be worth a fortune based on location alone...although it might be in a flood plain considering how low it is (and a creek runs adjacent to the property, and why isn't there anything built near the creek on the other side of Spalding?)...and that area used to have a bad crime problem because it's near the Fulton/DeKalb/Gwinnett triple point and police response times leave a little to be desired.  It also appears to be near what appears to be a sewage plant (I could be wrong).  Then there's this lackluster RE market right now...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=spalding+drive+norcross+georgia&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.435463,56.337891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Spalding+Dr,+Norcross,+Gwinnett,+Georgia+30092&ll=33.961924,-84.2643&spn=0.008543,0.013754&t=h&z=16

Could Dickey build an array further NE of town and then maybe lease it to other AM signals interested in throwing a directional signal southwestward, to defray the cost?

[BarryATL]

I wonder if WCNN moved the night array further north if they could do it with fewer towers?

Also, I looked at WRGC's info and was a little confused.  They currently have the tower broadcasting 680.  They are going to build another daytime tower for 540 khz that is not far from the 680 khz tower.  In addition to those two sites, they are building a THIRD site with two towers that is very close to the other sites.  Why so many towers?

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=WRGC&sr=Y&s=C