The PartyFM Listener Angst...I gotta vent

[thataveragejoe]

Party (on 87.7) has two main problems.
1. I agree with the sentiment that the overall presentation comes off missing that NYC feel somehow (too suburban, too cheesy "universe comes to party"?)
2. Party is what is in order to keep everyone happy on both ends of the island and the people paying the bills. But the majority of the dance fans don't like most hip-hop. I can understand that thought. Hearing Tiesto this weekend into Jay-Z's Empire State of Mind sounded like a train wreck, even to me and I like both songs.

I think some of the main resentment is people calling Party a dance station. It's not. Some dance is better than none of course, but it feels underwhelming to the avid fans.

[JohnParker]

1.  Would there have been anger if PartyFM went somewhere else on the New York dial instead of acquiring the frequency of a station on the New York dial of a station that went bankrupt?

2.  Should Pulse have addressed the financial issues to their listeners sooner since THEY KNEW, as far back as the radiothon, about the financial problems going on.  Would that have made people less angry because they would not have felt as "blindsided"?

3.  If rhythmic can help "sell" dance to a certain extent, since dance music is a "hard sell" in itself being that the music isn't heard throughout the country on the terrestrial FM dial, would that be a benefit or a hurt because dance fans feel THAT IRATE about hip-hop/R&B?

I'll go back to the questions as some of the responses here are back to the same old bashing and misinformation that has tainted these threads since the switch.

1) No because it would be a station signing on and most likely replacing a format that has less fans that are as passionate.

2) Again No, as it's nobodys business but their own as to what their financials were.  Since they were a publicly traded corporation there were things that they were required to disclose but nothing more than that.  Should Coca Cola tell it's soda drinkers what their financials are on a day to day basis? I'm sure they post just what is required and not a word more than that.

3) This is a bit of a loaded question.  Rhythmic stations playing dance music can open the music up to an audience that may not have been familiar with it.  So in that way, there is the possibility of reaching more potential fans, maybe even a die hard fan or two. 

But on the other hand you have the scenerio that you have now where the dance "purists" go crazy that the only way to hear dance music on the dial is by being exposed to music that they don't like.  I can understand that to a degree.  I do suspect though that the purists also aren't happy with the selection of dance songs that get played on the Pop and Rhythmic stations and that's probably adds to more of their frustration.  As those songs tend to be the more commercial tracks and not the "underground" sounds that they'd like to hear. 

One can either accept Party for what they are or one can not listen and find your musical fix in other ways but by constantly attacking and or whining about it on a message board isn't going to get anyone anywhere.  And for the record, the PPM's on Pulse were on a down trend for the last 2 months.  The last month doesn't really count though because the transisition happened in Oct.  But the September numbers weren't even 900,000.  I don't believe that we will see Party PPM's for a couple of months though so it will be tough to determine what the immediate response to the station is. 

I loved Pulse for what they were but life goes on.

jp

[neo11]

Regarding the down trend in the numbers... I would argue that a lot of it is just a result of normal fluctuations seen with every station, even those at the top of the heap.  Except, the difference is that if the station that pulls in a cume of over 5 million "loses" 100,000-200,000 listeners over a month or two, it's not nearly as "noticeable" as a station going from 960,000 to 800,000.  And the smaller the audience gets, the more absurd the fluctuations can be.  The RRC records the numbers for non-commercial and college stations, and it's amazing to see a station show up with a cume of, say, 9,000 in one trend, 21,000 in the next, 8,000 in the following one, then 12,000, 20,000, and so forth.  When you're dealing with samples, and extrapolating numbers, those stations with a smaller audience will be more prone to showing such shifts.

[Dancerev889]

QUESTION:
1.  Would there have been anger if PartyFM went somewhere else on the New York dial instead of acquiring the frequency of a station on the New York dial of a station that went bankrupt? ?
ANSWER:  YES, the station sucks no matter where it would be on the dial.

QUESTION:
2.  Should Pulse have addressed the financial issues to their listeners sooner since THEY KNEW, as far back as the radiothon, about the financial problems going on.  Would that have made people less angry because they would not have felt as "blindsided"?
ANSWER:  NO I didn't feel blindsided, Every single radio station is going through financial problems,  nor do i think they should have shared that with anyone on the air. In order to start any company you need overhead to cover for at least the first 4 years.  They also hired more expensive talent, people with a name.  I hear less commercials now.    The CEO of Pulse 87 /Mega Media Group  is not homeless.

QUESTION:
3.  If rhythmic can help "sell" dance to a certain extent, since dance music is a "hard sell" in itself being that the music isn't heard throughout the country on the terrestrial FM dial, would that be a benefit or a hurt because dance fans feel THAT IRATE about hip-hop/R&B?
ANSWER:  Dance Music is NOT a hard sell. If it was a hard sell in this country, than why are DJ's flying in to New York and still getting paid $25,000 to spin at a club?  It's not a hard sell, it's people like you that feed into people's ignorance.

ok so 5 percent of the DJ's in the world are getting $25000 to spin in NYC.  What about the other 95% which maybe making a couple of hundred bucks if they are lucky. 

[Dancerev889]

I've stated on previous occasions that I wasn't a Pulse fanatic, as I thought Pulse could've done much more with the dance format. Having said that, I will answer the questions:

1. PartyFM is a Long Island station leasing a dial position in the big city. It doesn't matter if they were on 87.75, 92.3, 97.1 or 107.5. A Long Island station is going to serve its core listeners first and then hope that city listeners accept the format sound. I just don't buy into the theory that big city listeners would push a suburban station towards their type of sound. If that's the case then WFAS, WKXW, WCTZ and WKJY would be big city stations as well, instead of being actual suburban stations.

Another thing we have to consider: This isn't Binghampton, Stamford or Ronkonkoma. No offense to residents of those cities but cities of those sizes can't compare to the size and power of importance of New York City. A city that fit the definition of polyglot and can't be treated as another suburban town. If anything, the NYC radio dial has become more or less "suburbanized" with the equivalent of the Starbucks, Applebees and McDonald's hogging the radio dial. The only difference, it seems, is "paper or plastic?" or "Have it your way (as long as it's a ______ sandwich)." This is one area where European and much of the rest of the world run complete circles around us. Check out the WinAmp player if you have that. Go to their Shoutcast program and search for radio stations. Put in "Dance" in the searchbox. Check the results. Notice how many stations are based outside the U.S. that plays heavy dance. I'm not talking about your average mom-and-pop start-up on Live 365 but actual stations with budgets. That's the difference! They take dance seriously. We (except for the Dance Coalition types) don't!

2. OK. I get it that Mega Media had money problems and it wouldn't surprise any intelligent person that they went out of business. Still, I commend them for following their dream and taking that risk, a word that has completely disappeared from the vocabulary of the radio business. I long for the days when the DJs have considerable influence and power within the radio stations and could lobby to put a song on that no other radio stations were playing. "Hey, Mr. Program Director! People want to hear this song from ___, who I just learned about. I think we can get people to listen because I think it's booming!" The loss of limited autonomy is what has hurt radio stations and encouraged the migration to the Internet.

3. Why should dance artists have to beg and plead hip-hop artists to help them "legitimize" the dance sound? Why should an aspiring dance artist need to put on a rapper to help him/her sell records? If anything, dance artists could use some guerrilla marketing to help push their sound forward. Take a few pages out of the hip-hop heads in terms of marketing their brand as a "true underground" sound. Like when Eminem dissed Moby back in the day, Moby (and dance producers) should respond by banging dance music even HARDER! If that causes the hip-hop heads to tune out, that's their loss. The culture's too ghettoed up already. It's time to turn the page and move forward!

What Producers or Dance artists are begging?  Funny Will I Am came to Guetta to help produce the Black Eyed Peas album.  Didnt know asking was now begging.  I think you need to listen to the producers that are producing records.  Guetta was on our airwaves and he absolutely loves the latest trends.  All types of artists are knocking on his door.  I think Tiesto would say the same thing

[Tony Santiago]

I actually have to laugh at some of these posts because people are complaining about a radio station that supports dance music.  Look at Party's concerts they are all heavy on dance artists. Some one needs to look one the dance board and take a look at the playlists from back in the 90's. All the stations were playing records that were not all dance records. 

Dance fans get over yourself, you sound like an a music snob.  You fight for dance music to be accept but do not accept other genres.  The hip-hop community is embracing dance music.  David Guetta and Tiesto are working with Hip Hop and R&B artists.  They are becoming household names in the world of Top 40.  Take a look at the Dance airplay charts.  There are a ton of hip hop records and pop artist on there. They are all being played on dance heavy stations. 

Support Party FM, they are a solid company and now you have a station that has financial stability

I'll answer your thoughts here separately Brett because there are some things that need clarification from me.  And I don't know if that "snob" comment was a general directive but I'll answer as if it was directed to me.

The gist of my post IS NOT a personal complaint from me regarding PartyFM.  Far from it...I WANT it to succeed and have been a big supporter of it.  And yes, they do play dance music, which is great.

However, what I am seeing within the dance music community is a "disdain" and one that I really don't think is warranted.  That is why I threw out my thoughts in question (not even thinking that people were actually going to answer them, just a rant and thinking in my head that made it onto "cyberpaper").  I see the complaints and bi-atching on FB and in that sense, I'll say it...people have been SPOILED with Pulse and don't want to give Party that opportunity to flourish.

Hey, I liked Pulse too but I know the reality is that the station isn't coming back.  But as soon as people would hear Party and all of a sudden a hip-hop track appears, that becomes the anger fueled.  And you can go back to Hot 97 (circa 1993) for that format flip (as well as Power 106 - LA and Kix 106 - Providence, RI...just to name a few).  When I started the coalition soon after, my goal was NOT an anti-hip-hop agenda (if you want proof, go back to Dance Music Authority - October 1994 issue) but a "let's get a new station" agenda.  Yet there is still that bitterness about the music that people never forgot.

I do realize that there is a new sort of "crossover" happening with hip-hop artists going to the dance music side of things, and if that can help get more people into dance, then great, all for it!

I'm just trying to "get to it" and find out the concerns within the community.  I am also seeking answers from those that enjoyed Party 105 BEFORE the 87.7 add that loved hip-hop/R&B and feel that they are "losing" something as the station tweaks more dance.

I'm trying to get all angles of the picture here Brett.  No snobbery, no negatives....just trying to find out from everyone what is up.

[DesiArnez6]

1.  Would there have been anger if PartyFM went somewhere else on the New York dial instead of acquiring the frequency of a station on the New York dial of a station that went bankrupt?

2.  Should Pulse have addressed the financial issues to their listeners sooner since THEY KNEW, as far back as the radiothon, about the financial problems going on.  Would that have made people less angry because they would not have felt as "blindsided"?

3.  If rhythmic can help "sell" dance to a certain extent, since dance music is a "hard sell" in itself being that the music isn't heard throughout the country on the terrestrial FM dial, would that be a benefit or a hurt because dance fans feel THAT IRATE about hip-hop/R&B?

1. I think so. some of it depends on what station it would replace. (Example, say it replaced 101.9, maybe not so much outrage, maybe some, its been sounder better recently) Either way our market is already oversaturated with Party 105's mix. It feels a little bit like half the stations we already have all mixed up. Its just not that great using New York Standards, and I already sense the programming "confusion" Almost like the BEGINNING of WRXP, only with dance and urban, but clashing in the wrong places. I think people have reached the exhaustive limit of "average radio" There is also more anger I think because it needs to be a different/special format to get people to tune in seriously. To get 87.7 FM, I have to turn on my radio, look for a the connector to the "radio in" plug, and select Radio In button, then I have to get out the shortwave/FM/AM portable radio, and attach the cord in the "headphones" plug, I have to tune in to 87.75 FM and equate for the volume difference and then fight a bit of static moving the antenna until just right. That is a lot of work!  And I wont be doing it often to continually to hear "New York State of Mind" over and over and some weird dance theyve also been playing for a few awesome songs sprinkled on top. Thats why I think the anger, it just seems a waste of a frequency, mediocre suburban mix, it just doesn't fit in.

*I'd probably listen more just for the heck of it if it had a regular good signal, not that it would be anything "special", It would just be my commercial time flip alternative for a song or two.

2. No way * Well, maybe a few days before yes, but thats the maximum,any earlier and they would have prematurely collapsed. I'm glad they kept it rolling as long as they could, the longer the better, and telling of the doom too early would have dampened the mood. On the other hand if they gave it a month, they might have increased listenership that ratings period from all the people that wanted to get in all the listening they could beore the shut down. I guess Im not completely sure on this one, but I change my maximum to a month before only if it wouldve helped final ratings.

3. A hurt. Unlike the 1980's, dance fans have elsewhere to go. We are a picky genertion, because we have options. We're basically spoiled as far as media goes. If we don't get what we want, we leave with no loyalty. (Actually Ive heard that is very much a Millenial Generation trait, high demands, EVEN in harsh economic times, job hopping - knowing they can eliminate the benefits anyways at the end like they did to our parents etc) But, back on track, rhythmic will have a hard time selling dance I believe. It is so much more convenient for me to load up the mp3player, or open up an internet stream, or turn on Pride FM, that I feel I have the option to be picky. I like "radio" but if it gets boring, I have no "need" to listen, Ill just find music elsewhere. (Shame on New York for not having a European or World style dance station, everyone here is like 1st or 2nd generation Americans from other countries, and Dance has already spread to nerly everywhere else in the world, pretty much every continent, culture, and race) I too believe that the "sellability" problem is a myth.

*Why would my generation settle for anything less (compromise) when we have access to EXACTLY what we want elsewhere? If that makes me a "music snob" than so be it, tough. It wouldn't be MY choice of words, but I dont have enough time in the day to waste with bad music in between.

[Tony Santiago]

Okay, I've read everyone's thoughts in here, and that's what I'm after......thoughts.  

I've seen so much negative crap on Facebook that I feel it's causing a "divide" within the dance music community just because Party doesn't sound like Pulse (and I agree...Party IS Party, it's what it is and is certainly better than nothing on the FM dial).  To that, I'm supporting them, regardless of the negatives.  It's about the MUSIC and if this station keeps financially afloat and adds some hip-hop / R&B to make it happen, then so be it.

Someone had sent an e-mail to me regarding DJ Serg, figuring that he is the "brunt of it all" with his mixshow in terms of keeping the Pulse listeners happy, but that no one from the Pulse listenership side is giving the other DJ shows a chance.  Aside from maybe DJ Impact with the freestyle, people are either slowly embracing or ignoring others such as Theo, Dimitri, Loki, etc. and that isn't fair just because their names aren't Frankie Vasquez (whom they DID hire, congrats Frankie!   ), James Anthony or Glenn Friscia.

I do realize "the big picture" here with JVC Broadcasting and want them to succeed.  I would love to hear Party style stations occur in Boston, Miami, Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc, eventually with some localized "branding" to keep it within the communities that they serve.  And if that, backhandedly, is going to help support the growth of current based dance music from the fan perspective, then I'm totally for this.

And to wgliradio.......as long as I'm alive and breathing, we'll never get "over it"    Whatever it may be, I'll still fight for this music no matter what.

[wgliradio]

And to wgliradio.......as long as I'm alive and breathing, we'll never get "over it"    Whatever it may be, I'll still fight for this music no matter what.

Then fight for cabaret licenses and places where people can actually go and dance.  Just because its not on the radio isn't important.   I don't have WQXR anymore where I live, nor do I have adult standards.  I've found alternatives which, in some cases, are better via streaming. 

[Ger]

lot good post here but all talk ...... WHY people wont getting off the backside and doing any think about , will i am try to get few interested put a station back up on net and fm soon
Ha radio not just for you , it take lot Cash to keep it on the air and with downturn off Adds and cost , we fining it lot hard to get adds

Ger