WBUR Ratings (in light of the WGBH change...)

[Don Juan]

Just got a chance to look at the latest ratings for WBUR.

AM Drive:  3rd place!  (wow!)

PM Drive: 7th place!  (pretty good!)

Middays: 16th! (Fresh Air, Talk of the Nation, On Point, Here and Now)


So, while WBUR has done well with drive time programming from NPR (All Things Considered & MOrning Edition), they dont do well outside of those shows.

ATC & ME are well done shows....but the midday stuff is seriously lacking.

For WGBH, outside of taking ATC & ME....does anyone expect anything else on WGBH to get ratings?  I mean "The World" is a really boring program.

Also, I hope WGBH tweaks their processing.  It seems set up for classical music...and the voices don't seem to come thru that well.

$.02

[DanStrassberg]

ATC & ME are well done shows....but the midday stuff is seriously lacking.

That's your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. If I were to ask you why that's your opinion, you'd probably respond that all one has to do is look at the ratings and no further explanation is necessary. But if that's your answer, it's circular reasoning--low ratings because it's inferior; we know it's inferior because the ratings are poor. My opinion is worth no more than yours, but I don't see a problem with the quality of the midday programming. You need a different explanation for the low ratings than that the programming is inferior. BTW, also included in that midday block is Fresh Air, which gets excellent ratings nationwide.

[Don Juan]

       ....but the midday stuff is seriously lacking.

But if that's your answer, it's circular reasoning--low ratings because it's inferior; we know it's inferior because the ratings are poor. You need a different explanation for the low ratings than that the programming is inferior.

I was not making such a jump.  Just the fact that it does not do well.  By lacking, I meant lacking ratings performance.

BTW, also included in that midday block is Fresh Air, which gets excellent ratings nationwide.

Do you have anything to back that up, cuz it doesn't look like it does well in Boston.

[aaronread]

I assume you're looking at the 12+ ratings?  We all know they're meaningless, but they're especially meaningless to a NPR station since their prime demo is 25-54, and really it's more like 35-65 (which is a made-up demo, but accurate in this case).

I have seen the 25-54 numbers for WBUR a few times over the years, although not in the last three, and they consistently trounce everyone during AM/PM drive save for WBZ, WMJX and Kiss108...all four stations tend to hover around the same point.  Weekend mornings WBUR usually blows EVERYONE away but that's a much smaller audience.

I think that last point is also relevant: the mid-day audience is usually a lot smaller than AM/PM drive.  So lower ratings there mean a lot less.  Mid-day is also always going to be tough because most at-work listening is not talk-radio because it's too distracting.  People want something soothing in the background, like WMJX or WCRB (or whatever 99.5's calls end up to be).

And, let's not forget, with NPR, ratings are only half the story.  The other half is fundraising; how well does a given show do in number of donors and total amount given.  The Connection with Chris Lydon...especially before he was syndicated nationally...used to be a fundraising powerhouse, doing far better than a mid-day show normally world in fundraising because Chris had a real cult of personality thing going there.   Beats me how On Point, Fresh Air, Here & Now and Talk of the Nation do when it comes to fundraising, though...probably a mix I'd imagine.

On Point and Here & Now are also nationally syndicated, too.  I have no idea how much WBUR makes in affiliate fees from NPR and PRI, respectively...probably not all that much, I've heard rumors that nobody gets rich off affiliate fees.  But I'm sure there's a dollar value there nonetheless.

[DanStrassberg]

I've heard that WBUR gets Fresh Air from WHYY in return for Here and Now. Supposedly, no money changes hands. If that's true, then affiliates are allowed to trade programming with each other, and in so doing, they avoid giving NPR a cut of the license fees (or whatever they are called). Also, considering that Fresh Air and Terri Gross are a national brand with recognized names, a cult following, and a large affiliate list, whereas Robin Young is pretty much of an unknown outside of this market, it sounds as if WBUR is getting much the better of this deal. Robin is easy enough to listen to (and when she was on TV, she was even easier to look at), but she is not the dynamite interviewer that Terri is.

[DanStrassberg]

BTW, also included in that midday block is Fresh Air, which gets excellent ratings nationwide.

Do you have anything to back that up, cuz it doesn't look like it does well in Boston.

During fund raising, somebody mentioned the number of people who listen to Frsdh Air every week on all affiliates combined. I don't remember the number but I was surprised at its size. I think it might have been around four million. I assume that if one individual tunes in to every show in a week, that person counts as five listeners. And no, I don't know how the number was arrived at, but I'd wager that WBUR got the number from NPR.

Anyhow, if my assumption about counting is right and my four million number is right, no fewer than 800,000 different people tune un each week and the 800,000 number would be a rock-bottom estimate.

[Don Juan]

I assume you're looking at the 12+ ratings?  We all know they're meaningless, but they're especially meaningless to a NPR station since their prime demo is 25-54,

Don't assume.  ;-)

I was looking at 25-54.

I think that last point is also relevant: the mid-day audience is usually a lot smaller than AM/PM drive.  So lower ratings there mean a lot less.  Mid-day is also always going to be tough because most at-work listening is not talk-radio because it's too distracting.

But another point is that the thing that brings them the stellar ratings (AM & PM Drive) is not programming from WBUR...it's an NPR show.

I think WBUR has done a good job of branding themselves, fundraising, etc.  And I understand that ratings are not the whole story in public radio.

However, the last thing they produced locally that had any sort of measurable impact is "The Conenction" with Chris Lydon. (And of course Car Talk.)

I think RadioBoston, while a noble, worthwhile and hardy effort, is lacking any compelling content.

But, back to the real point.  I assume that WGBH will not be able to duplicate the listenership of WBUR in AM & PM Drive....And even if they matched WBUR in other dayparts...that still not a lot of listeners.

Being "The Herald" (WGBH) to WBUR's "Boston Globe" is not a great position to be in competitively.

I say this not to tear down anyone's efforts, as I am a BIG fan of public radio.  I am just wondering if the business plan will work for WGBH