WLS transmitter question.

[JoeU]

WLS will never have as good of a signal into Wisconsin as WSCR, WGN and WBBM due to physical location in Tinley Park, IL (25 MI SW of Chicago) vs. Itasca, Elk Grove Village respectively ( Aprox. 25 MI NW of Chicago). The WSCR Itasca and WBBM, WGN Elk Grove sites are 40 miles closer to southern Wisconsin than WLS in Tinley Park. In addition, ground wave conductivity is better on 670, 720 and 780 Khz than the ground wave conductivity on 890 Khz.

Back in the late 70s, ABC wanted to move the WLS transmitter site to the Lombard / Glenn Ellyn area. The reason given at the time (30 years ago now) was that the areas north of downtown Chicago had a more difficult time picking up WLS due to ground wave absorption from the buildings downtown. The move never occurred probably due to zoning difficulties.

WMVP did diplex (daytime only) off the WLS stick in Tinely Park last summer on a limited number of days during WMVP's tower replacement project. WMVP's three shelf supporting towers were cut down and replaced with three slender guided towers. During the construction project the self supporting east most tower remained WMVP' s main transmitting tower at reduced power (25 KW day and 5KW at night). WMVP only diplexed off of WLS when it was deemed unsafe for the tower crew to work on the construction of the new guide towers. The old self supporting east tower at WMVP's sight was cut down after the new 3 guided tower array became fully operational. The WMVP tower replacement project was completed early in October 2006.

[cyberdad]

I was in Milwaukee yesterday (July 4), and the WLS signal indeed sounded "tired".  For reasons stated in the last post, I've known for a long time that WLS's signal in Beertown will never be as good as its three 50kw Chicago counterparts lower on the dial. 

I'll go so far as to say that WLS seemed a tad weaker than in the past, but I'm not really sure if that's true.  Aside from the IBOC issue (WNOV?...really?), it may just be that I was in an area where there's more man-made noise/obstruction than in the past.  Or it could be that the electrical system in my car is starting to get a little funky.  WMVP wasn't really any better, and the three blowtorches...while clearly stronger...weren't exactly knocking my socks off up on the NW side of town.  (WIND was its usual modest, but reasonably clear, self).

So who knows?

[Philip J. Smith]

Yes, WNOV was running IBOC when I came through Milwaukee on Memorial Day.  850 and 870 were a "mess."

[w9wi]

Yes, WNOV was running IBOC when I came through Milwaukee on Memorial Day.  850 and 870 were a "mess."

Are you *sure* that wasn't coming from someone else's IBOC?  (are you sure that the interference *was* IBOC?)  WLS would have been responsible for IBOC sidebands on 870.  Dunno about 850. 

The Ibiquity website doesn't list WNOV; the FCC CDBS doesn't show WNOV as having notified for hybrid digital; and there's nothing about HD on the WNOV website.  I was up there two weeks ago & don't recall hearing IBOC sidebands anyplace they hadn't been before.

None of this is conclusive proof they aren't digital...  but it just seems awfully unlikely. 

(for those of you who are actually in Chicago...  WNOV is the smallest AM station in Milwaukee, a 250-watt daytimer on 860.)

[cyberdad]

WNOV is not a daytimer.  For a number of years they've been operating it night on "miniscule" power....something like five watts or thereabouts.  Daytime is non-directional, so they actually have a pretty respectable signal throughout the Milwaukee metro.  Before the advent of WCPT and its predecessors on 850, they were clearly audible in the Northern reaches of the Chicago area.   At night the signal (also non-directional) is pretty well confined to the Milwaukee inner city....which basically is the area of interest for them.  They seem to be pretty much a local community-oriented operation, and its hard to imagine them with IBOC.  But hey....anything's possible.

[Brian Stevens]

There is no HD signal from 860 WNOV, but there is one from 920 WOKY which is Clear Channel.

[cyberdad]

There is no HD signal from 860 WNOV, but there is one from 920 WOKY which is Clear Channel.

Which also apparently explains why WOKY's daytime signal in Lake and McHenry Counties has gone from "weak" to "barely audible".

[Ultimajock]

...has the infamously lax maintainence of either WLS' or WMVP's transmitter sites improved at all in the last few years? Both used to boom into Northeastern Wisconsin around the clock, but the last time I was up there ('98), neither one of them were audible (and only the WLS carrier signal could be sensed at all) before sunset...

[ddybas]

...has the infamously lax maintainence of either WLS' or WMVP's transmitter sites improved at all in the last few years?

  Neither station is Lax in their transmitter maintenance, though the reception issue may leave you with that impression. The reception problem has to do with the increase in background noise from all the new microprocessor based appliances. The WLS and WMVP signal is the same strength, the background noise is just stronger these days.

[semoochie]

So here we have a 50kw non-directional clear channel primary station toward the bottom of the dial that has signal problems which didn't used to exist!  What does that say about the over 4000 lesser signals out there?  Will the noise continue to get worse?  This sounds like an excellent argument for full digital HD on AM and the sooner the better!