ABC CITADEL AM STATIONS SUSPEND NIGHTTIME IBOC

[Savage]

"Someone of stature??"  Who would THAT be??

One select group?  Yeah, just all the former ABC/now Citadel major market flamethrowers, the "showcase" operations for HD-AM.  Just the ones that share the same adjacent-channel problem that plague CBS and other major groups.  Just a little 66-station group held up as poster-stations for 24-hour HD-AM implementation.

And, yeah, just a "temporary setback," until the earlier of either (a) the laws of physics, psychoacoustics and medium-wave propagation are revised by corporate-suit crack-smoking engineer wannabes, or (b) iBiquity and the NAB figure out how to mass-hypnotize the AM listening public into accepting obnoxious analog noise, lousy HD-AM coverage, annoying IBOC artifacting and impossible-to-buy, low-functioning receivers at laughable prices.

[Chuck]

Reality: all AMs, even the currently sucessfull ones are on shaky ground and probably won't make the next decade in their current form.

Probably the best thing for AM, at least in the smaller markets, would be to apply the Canadian Solution. Move them to the FM band! To make room, all FM translators should be delicensed and shut down and the FM spacing rules could probably be revised to allow stations on second-adjacent channels in the same market. This situation already exists in the noncommercial band (88-92 MHz) in New Jersey and the New York metropolitan area.

Perhaps a few AM frequencies could be kept active with 50, 100, or even 500 kW flamethrowers to cover "white areas" of the country that are too sparsely populated to support local FM stations. With congestion relieved, the analog bandwidth could be opened up a little...although the receivers would need to be improved. (The GE Superradio was an excellent AM receiver.) Of course, programming would have to be improved. People don't want to hear a steady diet of syndicated talk, infomercials for cure-all laxatives and dubious real estate deals, and those hellfire and brimstone preachers who smile sweetly while conning lonely old ladies out of their life savings. Even if AM IBOC worked well, I certainly wouldn't buy an expensive new radio to hear this crap! (And, no, I will never forgive Michael Bloomberg for killing my beloved WNEW, nor will I forgive the suits at Westwood One for making WNEW, a New York institution, gravely ill!)

While I mostly agree with what you say, I don't agree that shutting down all existing translators would be a good idea, or that it is something that could even be done without HUGE political ramifications.  Considering who owns most of them, religious organizations, it simply won't happen.  Most politicians I've ever seen do not want to ruffle the feathers of any religious group.  The argument just gets too sticky and could result in unpleasant voter revolt.  Besides, it is hard to take away something once it is given.

I would be in favor of no new translators, dumping the back-log of existing translator applications and using the spectrum for local radio, be that AM's migrating to 250 watt LPFM's, new LPFM allocations or whatever.  I'd also like to see existing translators be required to originate at least some programming from studios located within 100-150 miles of the translator. If they are simply repeating a signal from hundreds of miles away in Twin Falls, Tupelo or some other distant location, they should be required to insert some local content in the programming day of each translator. 

[LinoNYC]

And, yeah, just a "temporary setback," until the earlier of either (a) the laws of physics, psychoacoustics and medium-wave propagation are revised by corporate-suit crack-smoking engineer wannabes, or (b) iBiquity and the NAB figure out how to mass-hypnotize the AM listening public into accepting obnoxious analog noise, lousy HD-AM coverage, annoying IBOC artifacting and impossible-to-buy, low-functioning receivers at laughable prices.

Boy talk about coolaid, that last paragraph reads just like ol' Sup

I read a report back in spring 03 that outlined to likely problems with this system, it implied that iboc would not be practical for all AM's. I wrote, in another forum that it looked like this would be yet another handicap for the small stations that for one reason or another could not implement iboc.

It's nothing new here many couldn't even run C-Quam.

The heart of my earlier remarks is the overall problem of aging and decling listenership  -something you choose to ignore.

No problem, stations with a half-share are destined to "get religion" anyway.

Lino

[Savage]

Hey, Lino, as long as we're using the phrase "choosing to ignore" and YOU'RE once again choosing to nastily criticize my station's audience share instead of advancing a substantive argument:

YOU are choosing to ignore that the Citadel shutdown has nothing to do with "IBOC may not be practical for all AMs," with the obvious implication being lower-power stations won't be able to keep up with the ever-trendsetting HD-AM pack.  The nighttime HD-AM problem - something YOU are choosing to ignore - is what prompted these major, big-signal, major market stations to turn IBOC off in self interest.  WABC, WSB and WJR were simply generating unacceptable levels of mutual interference.  The stations - not iBiquity or myopic radio blogosphere executives - saw the obvious threat and did the only prudent and sane thing to do.

So, c'mon, Lino, give it up.  Share it with the other posters and readers here:

Precisely what is the fix you envision that will make HD-AM actually work - at night, under real-world listening conditions, without harmful adjacent interference?

We're all waiting for your plan.

[The Dude]

2)  Nighttime AM digital operation was heartily endorsed by the NAB, and they certainly know what's best for broadcasters.

Oh yes,the NAB knows all,they critize people who dont agree... We must all fall to thier plans!!

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/the-nab-a-history-of-hypocrisy.html

[dumber than a box of hair]

Amid all the gloating over what is probably a temporary setback which BTW affects only night operation on one select group of stations there seems to be a mass denial over what is actually happening to AM radio in the USA and most other countries for that matter...All of the Am's have looming demographic problems.

No one's denying that AM stations in general have severe and increasing demographic problems.  No one can reasonably expect that a medium whose average user is over 50, and which is adding precious few users in the lower age brackets, is going to survive for very long.  However, the solution is NOT to make those stations harder to receive and subject them to more interference.

On an engineering remailer I subscribe to, it was posted that on Monday night (before Citadel engineering's directive came down), WJR had their HD off and WABC had theirs on...and there were multiple reports of interference within WJR's nighttime interference-free contour from WABC's HD carriers.  Reports like this are, unfortunately, the whole ball game.  Reduce the digital carrier levels to the point where they won't spill into first adjacents, and you kill whatever chance you had of obtaining even marginal coverage within your own NIF contour.

But, here we are, having a techincal discussion about all of this.  The average listener won't care about the engineering aspects.  All he'll know is that there's a strange and annoying noise in what used to be a reasonably clear signal.  He may or may not complain to the station, but if it goes on for too long he'll be gone.  Further erosion of AM's core demo is also not what it needs right now.

[Tom Wells]

Amid all the gloating over what is probably a temporary setback which BTW affects only night operation on one select group of stations there seems to be a mass denial over what is actually happening to AM radio in the USA and most other countries for that matter...All of the Am's have looming demographic problems.

No one's denying that AM stations in general have severe and increasing demographic problems.  No one can reasonably expect that a medium whose average user is over 50, and which is adding precious few users in the lower age brackets, is going to survive for very long.  However, the solution is NOT to make those stations harder to receive and subject them to more interference.

On an engineering remailer I subscribe to, it was posted that on Monday night (before Citadel engineering's directive came down), WJR had their HD off and WABC had theirs on...and there were multiple reports of interference within WJR's nighttime interference-free contour from WABC's HD carriers.  Reports like this are, unfortunately, the whole ball game.  Reduce the digital carrier levels to the point where they won't spill into first adjacents, and you kill whatever chance you had of obtaining even marginal coverage within your own NIF contour.

But, here we are, having a techincal discussion about all of this.  The average listener won't care about the engineering aspects.  All he'll know is that there's a strange and annoying noise in what used to be a reasonably clear signal.  He may or may not complain to the station, but if it goes on for too long he'll be gone.  Further erosion of AM's core demo is also not what it needs right now.

Further confirmation of what I said a long time ago, this scheme was not envisioned by anyone who ever designed, built, engineered, operated, or listened to analog mediumwave broadcast.  They are computer people who couldn't begin to tell what a Smith chart does,
or why it might make the mediumwave version of their plan unworkable.  Well, I sure wish I were a fly on the wall to hear how they've discovered propogation  distorts modulation!

This is old news, I'm happy ibiquity is finally learning this. 

Stick with the FM version, guys.

[Bill]

Thank you WLS. There's no hsssss in my signal at WNMB in North Myrtle Beach tonight The AM Stereo is clear, clean and bright.

[LinoNYC]

So, c'mon, Lino, give it up.  Share it with the other posters and readers here:

Precisely what is the fix you envision that will make HD-AM actually work - at night, under real-world listening conditions, without harmful adjacent interference?

We're all waiting for your plan.

On the contrary, the onus is on the opponentsof this system to come forth with a viable solution to AM's unsustainable condition.

My guess is you don't have one.  What I suspect is that is that in 3-5 years, long after you have stopped posting here you'll sell out to one  (or a group) of the churches that already rent time there.

Please understand, I don't say this with any relish or vengence, we don't know each other and are unlikely to ever meet, what I have outlined is occuring on a daily basis on AM's throught the country.

Your previous statements of having spent (I believe) 400K on power upgrades to your station, would this money not have been better spent on aquiring an FM slot?
Were none available?

If you can sustain an income from your operation, more power to you I know first-hand how great it is to work for yourself.  I also know what a dying business looks like.

Lino

[LinoNYC]

Amid all the gloating over what is probably a temporary setback which BTW affects only night operation on one select group of stations there seems to be a mass denial over what is actually happening to AM radio in the USA and most other countries for that matter...All of the Am's have looming demographic problems.

No one's denying that AM stations in general have severe and increasing demographic problems.  No one can reasonably expect that a medium whose average user is over 50, and which is adding precious few users in the lower age brackets, is going to survive for very long.  However, the solution is NOT to make those stations harder to receive and subject them to more interference.

On an engineering remailer I subscribe to, it was posted that on Monday night (before Citadel engineering's directive came down), WJR had their HD off and WABC had theirs on...and there were multiple reports of interference within WJR's nighttime interference-free contour from WABC's HD carriers.  Reports like this are, unfortunately, the whole ball game.  Reduce the digital carrier levels to the point where they won't spill into first adjacents, and you kill whatever chance you had of obtaining even marginal coverage within your own NIF contour.

But, here we are, having a techincal discussion about all of this.  The average listener won't care about the engineering aspects.  All he'll know is that there's a strange and annoying noise in what used to be a reasonably clear signal.  He may or may not complain to the station, but if it goes on for too long he'll be gone.  Further erosion of AM's core demo is also not what it needs right now.

I understand both yours and your company's views on this but you left the issue of unsustainable demos dangling.....It sounds like your're saying " when we're done here turn off the transmitter and lock the door behind you".

Three and a half years ago I asked someone that I correspond with out at Quincy: what if the adjacent channel problem is insoluable? He and his company's position is that stations using AM iboc may have to accept curtailment of servive area back to within their primary contour in exchange for a degree of sonic parity with FM.

I've used both AM-FM iboc for almost a year now and i'am well familiar with it's limitations, especially in using a first generation receiver, however the improvements in terms of multipath on FM and response/sn  for AM are undeniable.  I've demonstrated them here repeatedly. It isn't flawless but is does work.

Regards, Lino