John Mainelli's Observations on PPM in New York

[LinoNYC]

http://www.musicradio77.com/wwwboard/messages/327569.html

Sorry for linking to that "other board", but I believe this is the first indication of what PPM will will mean for N.Y. stations.

Quoting: Spanish and black stations got killed in AQH, dropping 1/4 to 1/3 for the week.

This is going to be an ongoing problem for these genres.  With a large and growing percentage of the Latino audience being un-documented it may be difficult getting them to participate and they along with blacks may be reluctant to wear a what might be perceived as a recording device.

There is also the fact that in an English-dominant society you are less likely to hear ethnic stations being used as background in public places -another way I believe the new method skews results.

Anyway, you can expect some howling from minority broadcasters, and in this case, I don't blame them.

Curtis & Kuby's second-to-final month for WABC was a killer in 12+ (7th) and they moved significantly in 25-54 (21st to 15th). WABC overall went from 12th to 5th in 12+ but was roughly flat in 25-54 at 18th place. 

Might this be because during diary measurement, people just forgot about what they had listened-to in the car?

In K-Rock's target of 18-34, the station overall budged from 10th to 9th. In morning drive, O&A dropped from 3.9 to 3.2 (8th to 12th).

This may have long-term implications for "trash talk" and anything else that might not be considered suitable for open, general public exposure.  It might also be that this isn't 1998.

The next year is going to be interesting for radio in this town

Lino

[LinoNYC]

Here is a Daily News article with more detail:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2007/11/08/2007-11-08_new_ppm_ratings_do_a_number_on_urban_rad.html

This new methodolgy looks set to cause earthquakes in the business. I do agree with those expressing concerns about accuracy.

Lino

[SuperRadioFan]

This is going to be an ongoing problem for these genres.  With a large and growing percentage of the Latino audience being un-documented it may be difficult getting them to participate and they along with blacks may be reluctant to wear a what might be perceived as a recording device.

Hmmmmmmm  I wonder if you have spoken with David Eduardo about this...because I believe David thinks that "undocumented" people do not and will not participate in any ratings process.  Therefore they should NOT be a factor.  I wonder if this is a "minority" opinion?   

[R.F. Burns]

This is going to be an ongoing problem for these genres.  With a large and growing percentage of the Latino audience being un-documented it may be difficult getting them to participate and they along with blacks may be reluctant to wear a what might be perceived as a recording device.

Hmmmmmmm  I wonder if you have spoken with David Eduardo about this...because I believe David thinks that "undocumented" people do not and will not participate in any ratings process.  Therefore they should NOT be a factor.  I wonder if this is a "minority" opinion?   

I can't say whether illegals (because that is what they are) are included in radio ratings but they certainly should not be. They are here illegally and so should not be included in radio station ratings. Hey, why not distribute diaries across the border to Canadian provinces or Mexican states. Citizens there listen to some of our stations as well and they aren't breaking any laws to do so. Illegals should not be included as viable members of our society and advertisers should not be trying to reach them as though they live in some alternative society. They have broken our laws and should be deported but that's another subject. (By the way, I am no conservative. I also believe that those hiring illegals and creating this underground economy should be heavilly fined and or serve prison time. I don't believe this topic leans one way or the other politically.)

[DavidEduardo]

I can't say whether illegals (because that is what they are) are included in radio ratings but they certainly should not be.

There is no definte data on the participation in ratings... and specifically the PPM... by illegals. However, knowledge and logic indicate that people who are undocumented would not participate in a survey where they have to give names, address, and family information to strangers. And, in the case of the PPM, grant access to the home in some circumstances.

Radio ratings and consumer research in general requires that all persons within the scope of a project participate in proportion to their distribution in the universe. Undocumented aliens and legal residents buy products, and that is all consumer research is about.

They are here illegally and so should not be included in radio station ratings.

Why? They are consumers, which is what advertisers wish to know about. The Census counts them, as well as they can. So ratings, which project a sample into the Census population universe, must contemplate their existence, whether they really particpate or not.

Hey, why not distribute diaries across the border to Canadian provinces or Mexican states.

Ratings are based on the ZIP code or place of residence per the market definition. In fact, when Arbitron was expanding in Mexico, they were going to consider a combined Tijuana / San Diego book, since that is the market.

Citizens there listen to some of our stations as well and they aren't breaking any laws to do so. Illegals should not be included as viable members of our society and advertisers should not be trying to reach them as though they live in some alternative society.

Ad agencies are not law enforcement organizations. And they care about anyone who would buy a product.

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Any explanation why Hispanic (and Urban) stations are being hit so hard in early PPM numbers.  Seems like not having to write anything down would help formats targeting down-market audiences.

[R.F. Burns]

Radio ratings and consumer research in general requires that all persons within the scope of a project participate in proportion to their distribution in the universe. Undocumented aliens and legal residents buy products, and that is all consumer research is about.

While you may be technically correct, I am of the belief that people who are in this country illegally should be afforded no rights and should all be deported. I love the argument that goes; you can't deport them all because there are too many. OK, then deport anyone you find and keep working until we round up as many as we can for deportation. Don't make the US a land of opportunity for law breakers. If that means I must mow my own lawn, so be it.

They are here illegally and so should not be included in radio station ratings.

Why? They are consumers, which is what advertisers wish to know about.

It isn't as simple as that. These people have broken our laws. They are no different than any other criminal. They are committing an illegal act by staying here and taking advantage of our system (schools, medical care) which they have contributed nothing to. Imagine if the tables were turned and millions of us decided to move to and live in another country just because we wanted to? I don't want to read the "We're all immigrants" argument because while at some stage all of our families immigrated to this land, (and that includes the "natives" who came to this land over the Bering Sea from Asia) they all came here legally following the laws as they applied at the time of immigration.

"The Census counts them, as well as they can. So ratings, which project a sample into the Census population universe, must contemplate their existence, whether they really particpate or not."  

Participate? The fact that they are aloud to stay is an insult to both those of us native to the United States and those who have emigrated here legally from other countries.

 

Hey, why not distribute diaries across the border to Canadian provinces or Mexican states.
 Ratings are based on the ZIP code or place of residence per the market definition. In fact, when Arbitron was expanding in Mexico, they were going to consider a combined Tijuana / San Diego book, since that is the market.

No matter, my point really wasn't that we should include residents of other countries to participate. It was meant to show that anyone here illegally should no be allowed to participate. It matters not whether they purchase products. We shouldn't be working toward getting their business. We should be working to getting them out of the US.

Citizens there listen to some of our stations as well and they aren't breaking any laws to do so. Illegal should not be included as viable members of our society and advertisers should not be trying to reach them as though they live in some alternative society.

Ad agencies are not law enforcement organizations. And they care about anyone who would buy a product.

But Ad agencies are theoretically American companies and should not be advertising to attract those who are here illegally. It's like saying that firearms stores should sell to anyone, whether they have a criminal record or not. While criminals do find weapons, a legitimate gun store will not sell a gun to a felon. Overlooking the fact that these people have broken our laws because we aren't law enforcement officials ourselves is no excuse. It's my opinion that if someone is here illegally they should be reported to the authorities, who in turn will do nothing.

[DavidEduardo]

Any explanation why Hispanic (and Urban) stations are being hit so hard in early PPM numbers.  Seems like not having to write anything down would help formats targeting down-market audiences.

In a nutshell, the issue is panel-based. In the first NYC PPM pre-currency report, the sample sizes in 18-34 indexed at about 0.60, and both the Black and Hispanic sommunities are young.

These are not necessarily down-market audiences... look at this:

"Nissan-owned luxury automaker Infiniti has launched a multiplatform campaign targeting Hispanic car buyers. "Disenodesempeño" - a translated blend of the words "design" and "performance" - taps renowned Latino artists including a chef, a dancer, a sculptor and a trumpeter. The campaign includes television, print and three proprietary events in Miami, Los Angeles and New York."

[DoubleC]

Question, I keep hearing the complaint that Black & Spanish stations have been hit hard by the PPM and therefore the PPM results must be wrong, could those stations have been credited with too much before, because lets face it the problem with diaries is folks would not remember what times they listened to the 5 or so stations on their presets and now it is just recorded without the need to remember what to write down.

[DavidEduardo]

Question, I keep hearing the complaint that Black & Spanish stations have been hit hard by the PPM and therefore the PPM results must be wrong, could those stations have been credited with too much before, because lets face it the problem with diaries is folks would not remember what times they listened to the 5 or so stations on their presets and now it is just recorded without the need to remember what to write down.

Total listening levels for the PPM markets is off by around 40%. The diary measured cume, TSL and memory, while the PPM measures cume, TSL and hearing (as opposed to listening).

The same issues about not writing in a diary short listening incidents or stations heard but not personally tuned in apply to Blacks and Hispanics as "Other" listening groups. And it is common in a diary to have an entry like "98.7 103.5 101,9 107.5 98.3" to indicate stations switched between.

Most radios do not have presets... and where there are presets commonly, in cars, only 30% of listening occurs.