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Author Topic: Clear Channel, CBS, Citadel, Cumulus, and Radio One.......  (Read 2210 times)
MikeShannon914
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« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2007, 03:35:45 PM »

Thanks, DE, for all the insight.  I don't always agree with your take on things, but your explanations were very enlightening.
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THE HI-FI CLUB...now with six affiliates across Texas! We cover current local radio/TV industry happenings, local and national historic events, celeb birthdays, and we play some long-lost oldies and classic radio recordings.  Go to www.thehificlub.net for times/stations, streaming and podcasting.
floodzonex
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« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2007, 04:05:07 PM »


Modern/Active Rock


How would you do it?  What do you think the Edge would do to fight it?  Make it like The End or KNRK or Indie?
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little1
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« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2007, 08:15:39 PM »

what bug crawled up yours?  And your real name and occupation, please,
No thanks.  I'm on record here as thinking that one of the stations I work for SUCKS. I don't need a boss or co-worker seeing that opinion and connecting it to me, thank you very much..

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 Besides, you're always taking me to task over something...so I assume it's something personal and has "little" to do with the subject matter.
There's nothing personal in it what so ever.  Maybe if you feel like your being taken to task, you should rexamine what you're posting. 

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It's an OPINION.  You don't have to accept it or believe it or buy into it.  I'm just an armchair programmer who's no better or worse than anyone else on here.  Sheesh, get over it.  Tell me what YOU think, sans the hate.  I'm sure you have some keen insight (seriously) and I'd like to hear it.
Right, it's an opinion.  But generally if you have an opinion (that the music is ill-researched) people have a reason for that opinion.  Do you have ANYTHING besides 'gut instinct' that tells you all this research being done is FUBAR? I mean, you may be right.  I'm just wondering of you have ANYTHING at all to base that opinion on. 

And a postscript on this- from what I've seen on this board there are people that actually understand programming and people who work in programming.  And it's obvious from some of the comments that there's a huge difference.  For example, suggesting that a station that has comparitively  low cume and low TSL broaden their playlist is programming suicide.  (since generally the wider the playlist the lower the TSL-people punch out on unfamiliar song syndrome)...So no offense, but I think it's obvious that their are a lot of armchair programmers here.  Just not a lot with a whole ton of credibility...

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  I also compare this to what USED to be played on the air.  Sure, not scientific, not measured, and I'm probably a fool for trusting my own perception and memories, or even my own judgment for what's "good music" and what's not.  It's all subjective, you know, whether something's researched or just guessed at...
But that's the point.  Get tied into the right circles and you'll probablyhear rumors of who's doing research and who's not.  Who's shelling out cash for a music test and even more cash for a perceptual or market study. 

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My point here is that there are OTHER choices for formats (or songs within a current format) that could be used simply to break up the monotony.  Everyone's different.  The other point is that programming seems to be dictated by sales, or by management that came out of sales.  They want the easiest thing to sell
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It's called capitalism.  Perhaps you've heard of it?  People bitch that there's too many talk stations and too many sports stations.  Want to know why that is?  Because the top 2 billers in the market are WBAP and KTCK. Both bill upwards of 20 million annually.  Would you rather go a piece of their pie, (and let's say you get 1/4 of it) or get half of the 8 million dollar pie that some much lower billing station is getting?  Which would you rather have, 5 million or 4 million?  I'veever worked in sales a day in my life, but I understand economics...

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  I just want to hear something different.  I want a wider variety of songs, no matter what the format.
 Back to programming 101...How long a day do you listen.  How long a day does your 'average' listener listen.  If you have low TSL, what possible reason would there be to not repeat your 'power' songs (whether it be the top 40 for CHR, the top of your formats chart for active, AAA, country, etc)  , the best testing songs for oldies, classic rock, etc...)as much as possible. WLS 'back in teh day' knew that the average listener was there for about 40-45 minutes. (the average commute from the loop to most suburbs) So they played the #1 song every 65 minutes.  And they DOMINATED for years.  Sure people who listened longer whined about the repition.  But it's about programming to the AVERAGE listener.  Not the heaviest consumers...

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KESN vs KTCK?  Somebody's not waging much of a war from one side.  There are other "battles," like KSCS vs KPLX, K-104 vs KBFB, etc, but that's no longer the rule. 

Well, KESN certainly seems to be spending a lot on billboards to tell me that they have both Hansen and Galloway.  So the opinion of whether they're waging a war is certainly debatable. (Now, ESPN might not be WINNING, but I think you have to agree they're at least fighting)

But the funny thing, in one post you say there seems to be a gentleman's agreement not to go head to head.  Then today you post 2 more example of stations going head to head...
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gagorder
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« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2007, 12:56:24 AM »

Sorry Gents D.E.'s long cure your insomnia approach to posting and Little one's looking from the wrong end of a telescope viewpoint,shows that sales have saturated their perspective of what good programming is and what trash it has deteriorated into now. Mike's OPINION far out weighs their "spinology". They could spin a skunk's odor in to Chanel number 5 if you allow it. Bottom line, no matter ,listeners are leaving radio. TSL's are dewindling down and "spinning" is setting new levels of acceptance. Sorta like a co-dependent of an alcoholic,denying there is a porblem. The problem is simple ,the programming is boring, unfulfilling except to ad agencies, sales,etc. More bartered time is being used ,more infomercials implanted to hold the bottom line ,when the basics of programing could be used. DE I won't respond to your long worn blown explanations,because frankly I have seen you been wrong on numerous occasions,with never an admission of doing so. So with this exception,don't seek to engage me,it will fall on more focused eyes seeking a better dialog with a more credible source.
Little one if you hate your station,then try to change it or must you go with the flow? I am certain with your saturation in sales you could land anywhere unlike a good solid program talent,that stations dont seem to  want anymore and dont care what goes on the air as long as it sells.
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DavidEduardo
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2009 - 50 years in radio


« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2007, 10:45:09 AM »

Bottom line, no matter ,listeners are leaving radio. TSL's are dewindling down and "spinning" is setting new levels of acceptance.

TSLs have been slowly declinging since the late 80's... that is 20 years! There has been no obvious "additional impact" of the most recent developments such as the much-discussed iPod or satellite. Over two decades, there have been significant changes in the weekly hours worked per person, the amount of leisure time, and the variety of the array of leisure-time activities available in this country. When we look at cause and effeect of TSL change (from just over 20 hours in the late 80's to today's diary-methodology average of around 18 hours or between 12% and 15% in most markets) we see that no single event is at cause. It's the sum of video games, portable media players for video and games, expansion and fragmentation of cable channels, the Internet including video, audio streaming and content, HDTV, the DVD, TiVo and other delayed viewing options for TV, etc., etc.

Within this context, the usage of radio on the cume level has suffered only tiny changes, mostly in the demographics radio is unable to serve, 12-17 and 55+. There have always been a few percent (5% to 6%) that do and did not listen, going back to the first Arbitron survey in 1965, and another percentage that listens in alight manner. This has not changed, and it appears that much of the alternative-to-radio media has had its biggest impact in these areas which do not affect terrestrial radio much, if at all. 

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DE I won't respond to your long worn blown explanations,because frankly I have seen you been wrong on numerous occasions,with never an admission of doing so.

I have no recollection of such incidents; you need to distinguish between issues of opinion and issues of fact. In this post, you have made claims about declines in listening with absolutely no quantification!
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“Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.”  Winston Churchill. The chronicles of radio, www.americanradiohistory.com where you will find an assortment of broadcast publications and magazines from the 20's through the early 80's and ratings data from 1997-2009.
TheRover
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The Internet is the Future of Listening to Music


« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2007, 04:31:25 PM »

I thought the remarks of someone "in the business", would be interesting.

He is Bob Lefsetz, Santa Monica-based industry legend, is the author of the e-mail newsletter, "The Lefsetz Letter". Famous for being beholden to no one, and speaking the truth, Lefsetz addresses the issues that are at the core of the music business: downloading, copy protection, pricing and the music itself. His intense brilliance captivates readers from Steven Tyler to Rick Nielsen to Bryan Adams to Quincy Jones to EVERYBODY who's in the music business. Never boring, always entertaining, Mr. Lefsetz's insights are fueled by his stint as an entertainment business attorney, majordomo of Sanctuary Music's American division and consultancies to major labels.

-------------------------------------------------------

Here's a Newsletter from Bob entitled: RADIO LAST

"Last night I had a dream
You were in it
And I was in it with you
And everyone I know
And everyone you know was in my dream"

I was at a radio convention. And there was a band playing on stage. Their number resembled Vanilla Fudge's reworking of "You Keep Me Hangin' On". The lead singer was blond, and he was playing a portable keyboard. But there were two more keyboard players behind him, and one to the side. Like I said, it was a dream.

And it was clear that this song was a hit. Oh, it needed to be polished, finished in the recording studio, but it had the raw essence. Actually, it was more than that, this band HAD IT! They lacked charisma, but the instrumentation was innovative, the sound was low-key, it wasn't in your face, but the melody was catchy, and your mind was set adrift.

And when the band finished playing, a guy near the stage started pontificating, about the radio plan. And I shouted out from the back, RADIO LAST!

The whole room went quiet. Everybody looked at me. I had the feeling that drove me to psychotherapy.

I don't know what it is about altitude, but I've been having crazy dreams all week. Last night's starred my ex-wife. For a long time. Usually, she just makes brief appearances. The distance, the superiority, the manipulation, it creeped me out. Then my friend Kate let me out the back door to avoid the killers. I flew to South America to evade their grasp. But the most memorable dream I had was the one in the middle, with the band and the radio convention.

Radio conventions used to rule. Radio used to be what it was about. That was the goal, TO GET ON THE RADIO! Back when radio was addictive, when it was the tribal drum, when you had to be tuned in to know what was going on.

Oh, first there was Top Forty. I'm considering 1964 Year One, when the Beatles broke, everything before that is B.C.E., before the common era. But then there was free format. Free format was about the EXPERIENCE! The deejays picked the tunes, they took you on an aural adventure. Then came AOR. AOR wasn't so bad at first. A lot of songs were played, there was hip news, everybody was in it together. Then came corporate rock, and eventually the whole system crumbled, especially when these same AOR stations wouldn't play Human League's "Don't You Want Me" and Soft Cell's "Tainted Love". AOR lost its stranglehold on the audience. Suddenly, AOR wasn't cool. And suddenly, RADIO wasn't cool anymore either. MTV was where it was at. And new Top Forty radio stations grew side by side with the video channel, to play the same hits. And then came the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and radio consolidation and the whole system imploded, radio no longer mattered.

And it still doesn't. Everybody believes radio sucks.

But with MTV not playing any music, radio is the easiest way to reach the most people, so the major labels, interested in making a buck, focus on these lame stations. They can only see through this prism. Whereas only the lowest common denominator music fan still trusts the radio. Radio is a joke.

So you go to radio last. If you want cred, if you want to have a career.

That's what I was going to tell the assembled multitude, if they'd ever opened their mouths, if it wasn't a "Springtime For Hitler" moment, if I hadn't woken up.

Take the easy way out and longevity eludes you. You've got to grow from the ground up if you want to have a career today.

Used to be you had to build it on the road. And that's still a good plan, but it's slow. Although fans made on the road last forever, since it's about the performance, and you've got to be good live to win people over.

Now you can also gain traction on the Web. Just as long as you're not pushing. Street teams are just one level above radio, they lack trustworthiness too. Can you say SPAM? If someone says ANYTHING is that great, especially if you don't know the sender, the poster, you tune it out. We can tell what's real. Hell, are you ever confused, do you ever believe a spam e-mail is a real one?

No, you've got to get your act going through word of mouth. You've got to be good, and then you have to give people the tools. You've got to post MP3s that you allow people to trade, you've got to have a Website updated DAILY! You've got to have a policed message board. You've got to have a real bio, hopefully a road diary. You've got to be a friend. You can't be above the audience. That's for doofuses like Paris Hilton. Real musicians are in it together with their audience.

Point is, a friend sends you an MP3. And if you like it, you want more. You immediately go to the band's site. Maybe even their MySpace page. But MySpace is to CHECK OUT an act. If someone is already a believer they want a hub that's the act's own. Without endless Flash animation, but tons of useful information.

And if you're good, word spreads. But there's never an overwhelming sense of ubiquity. Because there's no place to EVIDENCE this on the Web. There's no SoundScan number. No Top Ten. No site that rates ascension of a new act. It eludes the system, therefore the only person who knows something is happening is the act itself. And fans continue to build the act, telling everybody about their newfound favorite. You can be a star and nobody really knows. You've got something real that can't be quantified by traditional metrics. Because the traditional metrics quantify everything but soul. There's no soul in a sale. But soul is what keeps people dedicated.

And THEN, MAYBE, you have a radio hit. Sweeping up newbies, but not alienating the hard core, that knows you're real.

Classic example, the Dave Matthews Band. By time "Crash Into Me" hit, the act had hundreds of thousands, if not MILLIONS of fans, who were THRILLED the act they'd been into for years was getting the recognition they believed it deserved.

In other words, radio comes last. It's the icing on the cake. It's the victory lap. It's the seal on stardom. IT'S NO LONGER THE BEGINNING!

If you're BREAKING an act on radio, you can bet it won't last long, it will never be classic. You break an act in the audience's hearts and minds. Reached in these new ways. To think otherwise is to be in it for short term gain.

"I saw a vampire
I saw a ghost
Everybody scared me but you sacred me the most
In the dream I had last night
In the dream I had last night
In my dream"

There used to be promo people, radio consultants, the people in attendance at the conference in my dream. There are people like this who still exist in the music industry today. They spread their bull$#*@, make like their old ways still rule. But if this were so, why would radio listenership be dropping? Why would CD sales be off 15% this year?

It's a new era. To hold on to the old ways is to be Michael Dell. Someone who created a system that delivered riches that ultimately became outmoded. Breaking acts on radio is an outmoded paradigm. Unfortunately, like Michael Dell, the old music industry guard doesn't know what to do. They know they want to continue to rule, but they can't make up for being asleep at the wheel for the better part of a decade.

----------------------------------------------------------------
You can respond to Bob Leftsetz here:

http://www.rhino.com/rzine/storykeeper.lasso?StoryID=1043
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