OUTRAGE: RW PROPOSES MORE INDUSTRY, REGULATORY PROPS FOR HD

[clouseau]

Here now, Inspector.  You and I have had intelligent exchanges on this board and we even had a spirited, mutually respectful live joust on an internet radio show on HD just last fall.  With all due respect, this post is beneath you.

I believe it is NOT beneath rational discussion.  YOU have posted here that HD radio is Dead...

You play the "It is beneath you" card, because you (And the "we'll post here untill those with lives leave" gang,)  are acting like you have a legitimate take.

You Don't.  You put forth presumptive opinions as fact.  Look here.

See the topic entitled "Post IBOC Thoughts" here. 

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,96917.0.html

"Despite some comments posted here - and nothwithstanding the existence of the board topic - it's becoming increasingly clear that HD Radio's days are numbered. " 

You and a few others have annointed yourselves the "Sages du jour" and proclaimed HD radio's death. Good Luck with that.

I may have hijacked this thread.  Sorry.  But I still believe the my criticism is totally valid.  You guys have proclaimed the death of HD radio and now you are espousing it as fact. 

I believe we are of similar political pursuasions.  And I suspect Lino is not.  But you and the other Bob are engaging in this "CNNesque" warping of words.  I'll not atttribute this to you,  but listen to the vitriol since I responded to you.

"legal permission to jam other radio stations"

"The sound of crickets chirping is only exceeded by the sound of wallets slamming shut "

"It's sh*** all over our public sidewalks"

"It's still morally wrong,"

"walk a dressed-up pig with makeup on a leash."

"What's the matter ibiquity, can't get a real girlfriend?"\

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

This is the kind of elementary school BS that makes a Dateline report.

Maybe you ought to actually READ what I wrote about HD.  You folks are the "savage myopians".  Small "S".  The world is a little different.

You missed it.  The topic under discussion is RW's editorial proposals to prop up HD Radio, not the overall merits/demerits of the system. 

I guess that's why there is a free pass to post your "new language".  Where's Foxworthy?"  Is this "Are you more clever than a fourth grader"?  Looks like it.

It goes without saying that if such measures are necessary HD is in trouble.

No.  It goes without saying that many in the radio community believe HD should survive.   You should have seen this if you were at NAB.  Apparently those in Avon are not among the group.  Fair enough.

  Bob Young and I are "Baghdad Bobs?"  Really?  Take a look around if you want to identify the REAL "Baghdad Bobs."  A topic at the NAB was "How To Save HD Radio"

Amazingly enough it was.  IS this a topic about dead things?   I missed that "How to save CQUAM" forum.  You got a webcast on that?  Thanks for illustrating my point.

with blogs weighing in afterwards as to whether HD SHOULD be saved.  The most charitable way to characterize receiver availability is "hard to find at retail."

I actually believed you until I went to my local Best Buy TONIGHT.  3 different car radios on the shelves.  Bob, you may not like the display,  but if you aledge they are not available, in MY area you are lying.  In fact, there are only 2 HD stations available here,  and we have radios available.  Sorry to add an anecdotal refutation to your "Company line"... Radios ARE available.

Station conversions have just about stopped. 

Not to be confused with "Stopped".
The Initial rush is over.  Now we move to migration.  Notice you did not claim "No stations are converting".  Even you don't have the brashness to claim this without being shown to be a liar.  (You are inferring it though) Fact is...  Stations are Still converting to your alledged "dead" technoligy.  Dog gone it, are they stupid and you are smart?  I guess so.

The Alliance & NAB are debating another technical fix. 

Yep. And the improvement of the system pisses you off.  We get it.

It goes on and on and has been discussed here amply.  If anybody looks like "Baghdad Bob" it's the NAB and the Alliance which continue to trot out implausible happy-talk about HD while it continues to flounder in the marketplace, and its increasingly scarce proponents like Crawford.  (Can't really think of other recent examples of station operators who are publicly singing HD's praises.)

Assuming any of those you are preaching to can read... (Yep that's a snide comment)  They would see that your OWN RHETORIC would affirm HD is not dead.  Or worthy of a "Post HD" fantasy.

Where was the "Analog is the real answer" seminars?

If you want to publicly take issue with my arguments, fine. 

It's not just me Bob. Where was the "How to save radio" forums in Vegas.  I sure as hell didin't see them.  I saw the "How to promote HD" groups.  Did more people atttend those than joined you website mailing list? 

Tell us who would pay for the receiver-coupon program suggested by RW. 

I don't like the idea,  but how about the same folks that paid for HDTV?

Defend giving tax subsidies to iBiquity, or why station revenues should be confiscated to finance HD installs.  Give us some real-world HD station success stories - not more rhetoric from Cris Alexander and his obedient underlings, but examples of actual stations who have seen revenue or ratings spikes attributable to HD. 

I believe HD should be self sufficient.  You know that ratings are not yet really available for HD.  There are anecdotal reports of HD enjoyment.  I have my own.  I'll not recap them here in your hatefest.

Quote for us an audio blog or publication enthusiastic about the sound quality.  Or SOMETHING like this.

If you'd like me to start a blog or website in favor of HD,  I'd be glad to.  Apparently YOU are the only person myopic enough to actually start a website. Godaddy is having a $9.95 sale.  Both http://Bobsavageisamoron.com and http://clouseauisamoron.com are available.  I'll keep my $18 if you will. 

I have 27 sites. None of them are about HD radio.  Let me refer the myopians to yours at  http://stopiboc.com

The way to buttress your belief in HD is NOT by calling its detractors names.  If anything that just suggests to people that you can't offer rational arguments.

I'm NOT calling you or the other Bob names.  I'm merely suggesting your sides take about  "I-Block", "It Bothers other Channels", "Titanic Broadcasting of 2000" shows the juvenile behavour and possibly intellect you espouse.  The public can decide.  I suspect you are doing more to promote the technology than kill it.

Feel free to discuss it intelligently or feel free to have you and your goon squad related to "Internet idiots".  I'll not judge you.  But other MIGHT... 

You and I HAVE discusseed this intelligently on an internet radio show.  THAT was informational.  As Charlie Daniels would say, The  band of <5th grade> demons adds nothing to your side.

That Said...

Who's claiming Death?

Who's claiming Slow Progress?

And who's out selling garbage on internet message boards?

Where was the "We gotta get rid of HD radio" gathering?

I guess I missed the part where your folks didn't make up words, right??

Clouseau

[Tom Wells]

Dearest Inspector, vitriol wells up inside me when my chosen listening is interfered with by willfull, malicous, intentional repeated
interference.  If the vitriol has annoyed you half as much as the infernal noise of AM iboc, then it's a fair exchange.

What else ya got? 

Remember, I'm not anti-digital, just anti-interference.  If you can't, and no else can make iboc behave like
radio, instead a skunk, I'm against it.
When you can make it behave like a radio signal, instead a communist-block jammer, I'll be firmly on YOUR side.

What is your take on the concept of iboc: AM-bad, FM-OK ?  Are you fully convinced this is helpful for AM?

If the auto industry found that out-of-round tires improved gas mileage, and we'd all have to change to the new noisy, drummy, vibrating,
out-of-balance tires to save gas, would you be first to trash your smooth-riding and quiet tires?  I think not.
Explain why this "advancement" for AM is any different.

What if you had to buy a NEW vehicle to counteract the vibrations of the new tires, still OK with that?
What if your vehicle then causes other vehicles on the road to suffer?  Still OK with that?
How much worse SHOULD it be for the other drivers, for you to say, "It's OK with me, I've got the new stuff."
If other drivers in older vehicles are severely hampered by the new tech, would you be as miffed with them as you are with those of us
who find the previously existing technolgy perfectly adequate?

Having a rational discussion doesn't work when the law has permitted some to tresspass.
May I come onto your property and just wander around aimlessly?
No harm intended of course...I just want to walk around in your bedroom, kitchen and dining room. 
You'll never notice. I swear to God I won't take anything, I'm just gonna hang out here unwelcome... OK?
Oh, and I have a bad gas problem, but you'll only smell it for a little while.  You'll get used to it.
You just have to center-tune really carefully, and then it'll only smell a little bit.
Have you got any hard-boiled eggs in the fridge?  I think I'll just have a look for myself as long as I'm here.....

[KB1OKL]

Just a couple of questions: Where is the http://clouseauisamoron.com website, I couldn't find it 

Normally satire like the following bothers people because it's true, and their denial is their only defense against the truth:

"legal permission to jam other radio stations"

"The sound of crickets chirping is only exceeded by the sound of wallets slamming shut "

"It's sh*** all over our public sidewalks"

"It's still morally wrong,"

"walk a dressed-up pig with makeup on a leash."

"What's the matter ibiquity, can't get a real girlfriend?"\

If iBlock was going wonderful like "they" say it is this wouldn't bother anyone connected with it, but since it is such a never was and a lead balloon which never left the ground, it must really grate those that are still either naive enough or have their heads buried deep enough in the ground that they still think it's somehow, some way going to all come roses. The indignation that the lone few pro-IBOCers that are left show is just a defense mechanism against the truth they are afraid of and know is true deep inside themselves.
Baghdad Bob was a complete liar who painted a totally false, rosy picture of the war to the Iraqis when it was obvious to EVERYONE else that they were sinking fast into oblivion (sound familiar?), just like the Iniquity and the iBlock Alliance's game plan, which is to cry to the FCC and other sympathetic places like radio World. What right do they have to try to force their pathetic jamming lo-fi technology on us when it is obvious to everyone even those in denial (at some level) that is is dead and has been for a year?.

[Savage]

"There are none so blind, as those who will not see."

Or, to paraphrase here in the twilight of HD Radio:  none so deaf as those who will not hear.

Everyone is invited to apply this truism to the poster, and attendant contentions, of your choice - with my sincere best wishes.

[Cal Stymes]

I do not understand what fervor it is that causes posters who support IBOC technology to feel compelled to personally attack posters who do not support or have serious doubts about IBOC technology and then try to make them look ignorant, impertinent, insignificant, juvenile and ridiculous.

It seems to me that people like Tom Wells, Bob Savage, dumber than a box of hair and other industry professionals who post here are extremely bright, clear-thinking individuals who analyze problems and post reasonable arguments about why this (particularly AM HD) technology and some of the ways being proposed to give it a subsidy is some very nasty stuff indeed.

The vitriol that surfaces when IBOC technology supporters post just boggles my mind.  As time goes on more and more evidence is being collected that this technology does not, in fact, stand on its own, yet supporters of it make argument and take issue with the personalities of the non-supporters rather than with the data presented or engineering points being raised by them.

I just don't get it.  Is the personal nature of their attacks because most of them already own some financial interest in iBiQuity?

[clouseau]

...
The vitriol that surfaces when IBOC technology supporters post just boggles my mind. 

You're kidding me, right?  Pigs Defecating on sidewalks. and the rest of the aforementioned list?

But I guess that's all IBOC supporters words.

I just don't get it. 

I agree.  Without regard to the issue of the technology,  when it comes to the dynamic of the discussion, you just DON'T get it.

Is the personal nature of their attacks because most of them already own some financial interest in iBiQuity?

<sarcasm = "ON> Good point.  No one's ever brought that up before <sarcasm = "OFF">

I do not believe it is an personal attack to point out that a few select individuals are making up words, proclaiming the end of a growing technology or claiming saome moral imperative with regards to frequency rules.

I guess your Mileage varies.

Out

Clouseau 

[Savage]

Back to the point of this thread: I would argue that RW's editorial is just a showpiece for the benefit of "certain parties" on which the publication depends: the NAB, the Alliance and broadcast equipment manufacturers which comprise the mag's core advertising constituency.  (As a former print-media owner I also note that RW appears to be notably slimmer these days, reflecting a general decline in display ad content.  Not good.  They also have new owners.  Add it all up and I'd be willing to bet that the staff were told to so something to publicly boost HD so they can all keep their jobs.)

Let's consider RW's suggestions to "speed up adoption" of HD: tax credits for HD gear installs or confiscatory income redistribution?  The former would require a Tax Code revision which even if possible would take years, and the latter would be challenged as unconstitutional.  Interest-free financing?  iBiquity would have to eat the interest costs, which it can't and won't do, nor will they suspend licensing fees.  The company desperately needs every dollar it can scrape with HD installs slowing to a crawl.  Couponing for free receivers?  Again: somebody's gotta pay for that, and it would be MASSIVELY expensive.  It won't be iBiquity (see above) and the radio industry is having enough problems keeping the revenue ship from taking on too serious a list (I see IBOC pioneer CBS is down 9 percent for the quarter.  They've got far bigger fish to fry.)

The bottom line: it's implicit and obvious that HD Radio is just about done or RW wouldn't be prescribing emergency resuscitation on its editorial pages.  Without the kind of massive life support measures they're suggesting this technology is destined to join DSB AM Stereo, Quad-FM, the RCA Ampliphase and monochrome television in the room full of engineering curiosities and outmoded parts chassis gathering dust in the TX site back room.  Now, RW can say to its clients: hey, we tried.  See it in the 4/23/08 issue.

[wgliradio]

I actually believed you until I went to my local Best Buy TONIGHT.  3 different car radios on the shelves.  Bob, you may not like the display,  but if you aledge they are not available, in MY area you are lying.  In fact, there are only 2 HD stations available here,  and we have radios available.  Sorry to add an anecdotal refutation to your "Company line"... Radios ARE available.

Out of those three, only one is a legit brand.  IIRC, they are stocking the Jensen and their own brand which has HD.  No tech savvy person would pick Jensen or the store brand over a Pioneer or Sony.  When people shop for stereos, they are looking for a front line in jack, MP3,or the display, or even how the pre-amp performs.  HD is an option most will ignore.  If it is there, that's good for the city grade signal.  After that, forget it.  Forget it also for AM.

The Initial rush is over.  Now we move to migration.  Notice you did not claim "No stations are converting".  Even you don't have the brashness to claim this without being shown to be a liar.  (You are inferring it though) Fact is...  Stations are Still converting to your alledged "dead" technoligy.  Dog gone it, are they stupid and you are smart?  I guess so.

Most stations converting now are group owned... and much money has been invested and much is at stake for these groups to try and push this forward for their own sake.  I know of very few broadcasters outside of group owned in larger markets or NPR affiliated that are taking the plunge.  I stood in the Ibiquity booth at NAB.  The "whole world is digital, so should you" argument is old and dead... and that is the line they were still feeding.

Where was the "Analog is the real answer" seminars?

Since 99.5% of radio users still listen in analog (and the rest use it when the HD signal becomes unusable, which is often), pretty much every seminar about programming ideas (etc) is geared towards analog as real "answers" for radio now (and radio now is still analog).  The digital answer lies in technology we probably don't even realize today, being developed by people not in the radio industry.  Our content will ride on that delivery method and only those who can realize where things are headed will understand that.   We need to be where the people are and focus our resources on programming and delivering our content in analog over the air and in digital over the internet.

Where was the "How to save radio" forums in Vegas.

http://www.nabshow.com/2008/conferences/sessiondetail.asp?id=1207507
http://www.nabshow.com/2008/conferences/sessiondetail.asp?id=1207508
http://www.nabshow.com/2008/conferences/sessiondetail.asp?id=1207270
http://www.nabshow.com/2008/conferences/sessiondetail.asp?id=1207273
http://www.nabshow.com/2008/conferences/sessiondetail.asp?id=1207505

All of the above sessions talk about change for radio vs digital competition or about strategies for streaming.  I don't see anything on the list that is exclusive HD.

[dumber than a box of hair]

Where was the "Analog is the real answer" seminars?

I guess most radio station owners don't need a seminar to tell them where their money is made...or to tell them that it will be decades, if ever, before digital starts making the same kind of money.

[Savage]

BTW: I am "inferring" that "no stations are converting?"  No.  Inference is done by the listener.  The speaker/writer IMPLIES.  And while we're at it: NEITHER is true.  I stated simply that - quote - "conversions have just about stopped," which is literally, demonstrably true.  AM-HD has added about a station a month since the great 24-Hour HD Turn-On 9/14/07, with notable major-market cases of multiple HD TURN-OFFS because of interference problems.  There are 4700 licensed and operating AM stations and 2 PERCENT use HD 24/7.  Add it up: a whopping dozen new installs a year = "just about stopped."  And the FM picture is similar.

These are the stark facts of IBOC.  They are easy to distinguish from hysterical, shrill rhetoric.

There is no question but that the pro-IBOC people have to have an agenda.  There can't be any other reason why they publicly cling to this obviously-stiffing, divisive, counterproductive and clearly poor-to-marginally performing technical scheme.  Radio's enemies are in full-attack mode while the industry argues about updates to its uniforms and the most fuel-efficient route to the battlefront.  HD is a dangerous diversion from real issues confronting our livelihood and a tragic waste of needed resources.

Whatever is said, whatever is written, IBOC will be over sooner rather than later.  Radio is becoming a financial train wreck, and Congress is putting the thumbscrews on the corrupt FCC.  A federal court just ruled that the FCC ignored interference problems with broadband-over-power-lines (BPL) and IBOC is also being pointed to by the House Commerce Committee.  Very shortly the massive failure of HD Radio in the marketplace, its endless technical faults, the confiscatory licensing, and the lousy receivers will all be revealed for all to see.
IBOC is already a bad consumer-electronics joke.  And its fortunes are about to take a decided turn for the worse.  Say and believe what you will, IBOC's fate is no longer in the dirty hands of iBiquity, the Alliance and the NAB.