TV Station Channel Brands After DTV Conversion?

[BRNout]

Isn't this happening somewhat, already?  NBC has been busy re-branding their owned and operated stations as "NBC New York,"NBC Bay Area," and so forth. At least in the Bay Area, channel position is no longer mentioned at all. 

I presume this is not just because of the digital conversion, but possibly also to prevent confusion between over the air, cable and satellite.  For years now, we've been in a world where cable channels are branded differently than broadcast channels.  I think that consumers can deal with it...I know I can.

I don't know whether that's a company-wide, on-air thing or just something being used on the local websites.  I say that because WMAQ unveiled their new "NBC CHICAGO.com" website, yet the on-air logo and positioning of the station actually promotes the "WMAQ NBC 5" moniker more heavily than before.  Now the "5" is actually larger than the calls or NBC lettering.  Despite the look of the website. 

On a recent trip to the New York area, it didn't look like the "4" was going anywhere either. 

Contrary to some of the predictions that I've read on this board, I might add.....   

[Scott Fybush]

Baltimore isn't one of those.  WJZ is returning to 13, WMAR is moving to WJZ-DT's pre-transition channel 38 from 52.

One that is like that is in Tampa, FL.  WTVT-13 is operating on DT-12, and WEDU-3 (DT-54) will end up on DT-13.  And West Palm Beach has WPEC-12 on DT-13, with WPTV-5 (DT-55) on DT-12 after the transition.

Your point still stands., just saying. =)

In a way, I actually kind of proved my own point, didn't I - if I can't even keep this stuff straight, how's a viewer in Baltimore or Tampa or West Palm going to make sense of it?

(I remember now why Baltimore threw me - WMAR is buying WJZ-DT's entire transmission chain, and leasing space in the WJZ building to keep the DT38 transmitter where it is.)

Another one like this: in Syracuse, WSTM-3 (now on 54) will be on DT 24 post-transition, while WCNY-24 will stay on 25.

[KML-224]

Here in Hartford/New Haven, WVIT-TV/DT (NBC) of New Britain recently changed their website address to nbcconnecticut.com. It had been nbc30.com until the fall. They are on analog cable channel 4 in most of the market. They are using channel 35 for WVIT-DT. Maybe it's best they just call themselves "NBC Connecticut" from here on out?

As for frequency swaps with old channels? I don't see that here. Two stations will go back to their analog channel after February 17 (CW and ION). The rest are already on their future channels:

WFSB (CBS) Hartford - A 3/D 33
WTNH (ABC) New Haven - A 8/D 10
WUVN (UNI) Hartford - A 18/D 46
WTXX (CW) Waterbury - A 20/D 12 [D 20 soon]
WEDH (PBS) Hartford - A 24/D 45
WHPX (ION) New London - A 26/D 34 [D 26 soon]
WVIT (NBC) New Britain - A 30/D 35
WEDN (PBS) Norwich - A 53/D 9
WCTX (MY) New Haven - A 59/D 39
WTIC (FOX) Hartford - A 61/D 31
WEDY (PBS) New Haven - D 6 [A 65 off the air]

[Jim]

I suspect that the heritage NBC stations (e.g., WNBC, KNBC, WMAQ, etc.) will keep the NBC# (or even "Channel #") branding.  KNTV (NBC 3, NBC 11, NBC Bay Area...) hasn't been an NBC station all that long (only several years), rather than 50+ years...

KNBC still airs "The Channel 4 News" - and folks in southern California know that NBC is on channel 4 (regardless of physical channel number), just like folks in Utah know that ABC is on Channel 4 (even on analog with translators on different channel numbers).  It's all branding.

Once the dust settles, you may see some requests to change virtual channel numbers (most likely to a lower number - maybe to match local cable systems?), but we'll let that scenario rear it's head off in the future...

Jim

[dhett]

Did I read that, post transition, translators would be allowed to map to the parent station's psip (current analog) channel number?

You did, they are, and it's seamless.

For the most part.  I'm still waiting to see how the Mohave County Board of Supervisors handles LP DTV in Kingman, Arizona, where one of their translators rebroadcasts PBS station KAET 8 Phoenix on RF 49 while another rebroadcasts CBS station KLAS 8 Las Vegas on RF 31.  KAET has 4 subchannels, while KLAS has 2.

Ditto for St. George, Utah, where one translator rebroadcasts KTVX 4 Salt Lake City (it already has a DTV companion), while another rebroadcasts KCSG 4 Cedar City.

Bullhead City AZ and Laughlin NV will have the same issue with KTVK 3 Phoenix and KVBC 3 Las Vegas, KPHO 5 Phoenix and KVVU 5 Henderson, KAET 8 Phoenix and KLAS 8 Las Vegas, and KSAZ 10 Phoenix and KLVX 10 Las Vegas.  The same issue would have also existed between KNXV 15 Phoenix and KINC 15 Las Vegas, but the two translators that carried KNXV have switched to KTNV 13 Las Vegas instead.

This thread is blurring the line between "branding" and "mapping".  Stations already brand themselves in any way they please (MY TV 9 for WCTX A59/D39 New Haven CT; CW 6 for KASW A61/D49 Phoenix AZ; Fox 5 San Diego for KSWB A69/D19 San Diego CA).  The FCC regulations only cover mapping via PSIP, and only full-service stations are required to use it.

[poledo]

Since most stations today aren't carried on their actual channel numbers on cable, due to interference issues, do you think that many stations will request cable companies move them to their ota virtual channel numbers after the transition?  Seems like a good idea to me, especially in the big markets with multiple low numbered/vhf channels.  It would solve more identity problems than anything stations could do for ota viewers.

[dhett]

Since most stations today aren't carried on their actual channel numbers on cable, due to interference issues, do you think that many stations will request cable companies move them to their ota virtual channel numbers after the transition?  Seems like a good idea to me, especially in the big markets with multiple low numbered/vhf channels.  It would solve more identity problems than anything stations could do for ota viewers.

I doubt it.  A lot of the stations being carried on cable on a channel other than their broadcast channel prefer to be carried that way, primarily due to a more favorable placement in the lineup.  For example, in Phoenix, KTVW 33, KTAZ 39, KUTP 45, KPPX 51 and KASW 61 are carried on Cox cable on channels 19, 20, 9, 17 and 6, respectively, and channels 2-22 make up their "basic" package.  In San Diego, KSWB 69 is on channel 5 while KNSD 39 is on channel 7.  I don't see that changing.

[tripinva]

I interpreted poledo's message to be referring to places where even the VHF channels are skewed due to ingress.  In some places near me, WDBJ-7 is on 8, WSLS-10 is on 11, and WSET-13 is on 3.  I forsee things like that changing in places where stations aren't reverting to their analog channels.

- Trip

[w9wi]

Did I read that, post transition, translators would be allowed to map to the parent station's psip (current analog) channel number?

You did, they are, and it's seamless.

For the most part.  I'm still waiting to see how the Mohave County Board of Supervisors handles LP DTV in Kingman, Arizona, where one of their translators rebroadcasts PBS station KAET 8 Phoenix on RF 49 while another rebroadcasts CBS station KLAS 8 Las Vegas on RF 31.  KAET has 4 subchannels, while KLAS has 2.
...

The FCC regulations only cover mapping via PSIP, and only full-service stations are required to use it.

The ATSC A/65 standard says:

For a translated signal, the major/minor channel numbers shall remain the same as the original broadcast station unless the major channel conflicts with a broadcaster operating
 in the service area of the translator. In that case, the translator shall change the major number to a non-conflicting number.

So in these situations, one of the translators gets to choose whatever major channel number they want.   I suppose "01" or "37" or "72" would be perfectly legal choices. 

(as you say, A/65 - PSIP - is not technically binding on translators.  They are simply required to transmit a signal that can be "satisfactorily viewed" on a DTV designed to receive ATSC signals.  I do think it's difficult to come up with a way to violate this rather vague requirement without making it impossible to satisfactorily view the signal!)

(since someone will ask...  channel numbers, both major and minor, must be between 1 and 99 inclusive.  Channel 0 won't work, and neither will 237.)

[poledo]

I interpreted poledo's message to be referring to places where even the VHF channels are skewed due to ingress.  In some places near me, WDBJ-7 is on 8, WSLS-10 is on 11, and WSET-13 is on 3.  I forsee things like that changing in places where stations aren't reverting to their analog channels.

- Trip

Yes, that's what I was trying to ask in my 2 AM deliriousness.  Thanks for cleaning up my question.  And why would it matter if the station reverted to it's analog channel, a digital ota signal wouldn't cause much (if any) interference on a leaky analog cable, would it?  It certainly wouldn't matter on digital cable.