TV Station Channel Brands After DTV Conversion?

[landtuna]

The radio station analogies remind me of a story (possibly apocryphal) regarding Bay Area radio pioneer James Gabbert. He is credited - rightly or not - with being the first station owner back in the late 1960s to brand a station with the dial position (frequency).  He changed the call letters of his FM station at 101.3 from KPEN to KIOI, and branded the station K-101.

I clearly remember KTKT 990 AM using "Color Radio 99" as their brand in the late 50's.

[Scott Fybush]

I guess the thing I don't understand about the opposition to channel mapping is...  what does one hope to gain by requiring DTV stations to map to their RF channel?  How does that benefit anyone? 

For years and years now both TV and radio have branded their calls in association with their dial/RF position.  This simply continues that tradition. 

I see far more confusion in the future by branding DTV channel 17 as retro analog channel 5.  Far easier and simpler to cut over to the new RF channel now and remain consistent with the method which has been in place for decades.

And again, I disagree. Call it a matter of semantics if you will - but under the "method which has been in place for decades," both TV and radio have branded their calls in association with the way in which they are tuned by the public. In the earliest days of AM radio, that was usually in wavelength, by meters, because that was the way the earliest dials were marked. (That form of "mapping" continued in Europe well into the 70s, which is why BBC Radio 1 was known as "247," its wavelength in meters, rather than as "1214," its frequency in kilohertz.) "France 2" in Britain appears as pushbutton #2 on French TV sets, and the underlying RF channel only comes into play when the set is configured for the first time. And when I go to watch NBC here, I do so on "Channel 10," and I let my TV set, cable box, or satellite receiver figure out whether that means 192-198 MHz for the analog OTA signal, 798 MHz for the QAM digital cable signal, 12-point-something GHz for the Dish or Direct signal, or 734-740 MHz for the ATSC digital signal.

Here's the key, as I see it - it is only as a matter of custom, based on the old-fashioned analog tuners that could only do fixed mapping between frequency and "virtual channels," that we call the 734-740 MHz frequency band "channel 58." In the UK, that same frequency band is split between "channel 53" and "channel 54." In much of the rest of Europe, Asia and Africa, it's "channel 54." On your analog cable box, it's "channel 114."

In other words, to my digital tuner right now, right here, "channel 10" is 734-740 MHz, just as for you in Phoenix, "channel 10" is 572-578 MHz. The tradition behind "channel 10" is in the content associated with that branding, not in any of the many various frequency bands on which that content happens to be transmitted at the moment...or will be in the future. Those underlying frequencies are simply the behind-the-scenes mechanics, of no more importance than the IP address of this website or the precise frequency your cellphone is using at any given second. You type in the URL, or dial the number - or punch in "channel 10" - and the software takes care of the rest.

[landtuna]

I suspect then, my Dear Fybush, we will agree to disagree.

I've got no horse in this race so it doesn't matter to me professionally.

[Pat Cook]

Hi everyone:

Since most stations today aren't carried on their actual channel numbers on cable, due to interference issues, do you think that many stations will request cable companies move them to their ota virtual channel numbers after the transition?  Seems like a good idea to me, especially in the big markets with multiple low numbered/vhf channels.  It would solve more identity problems than anything stations could do for ota viewers.

I doubt it.  A lot of the stations being carried on cable on a channel other than their broadcast channel prefer to be carried that way, primarily due to a more favorable placement in the lineup.  For example, in Phoenix, KTVW 33, KTAZ 39, KUTP 45, KPPX 51 and KASW 61 are carried on Cox cable on channels 19, 20, 9, 17 and 6, respectively, and channels 2-22 make up their "basic" package.  In San Diego, KSWB 69 is on channel 5 while KNSD 39 is on channel 7.  I don't see that changing.

More examples worth mentioning.....

KDVR (FOX) is on UHF Channel 31 OTA, yet Comcast has them on channel 13
KTVD (MyNetwork TV) (While promoted) is on UHF Channel 20 OTA, yet Comcast has them on channel 3
KPXC is on UHF Channel 59 (ION) is on UHF Channel 59, yet Comcast has them on channel 17
KRMT (Daystar) is on UHF Channel 41, yet Comcast has them on channel 19
KDEN (Telemundo) is on UHF Channel 25, yet Comcast has them on channel 11
KZCO (Azteca America) is on UHF Channel 27 (Almost at LP status I might add), yet Comcast has them on channel 15

The only channel which didn't have its cable channel change was KTFD 14 (Telefutura).  Comcast still has it on channel 14.

I don't see any of these changing next month....

Cheers

[Lkeller]

Quote: "Since most stations today aren't carried on their actual channel numbers on cable, due to interference issues, do you think that many stations will request cable companies move them to their ota virtual channel numbers after the transition?  Seems like a good idea to me..."


Most stations will probably want to stay where they always were, to avoid confusing viewers.  It seems like an anachronism in a remote control 200+ channel world, but I've heard that most stations prefer being located on the low VHF channels (2-13) whenever possible. So UHF stations would rather be low on the dial, than in their actual dial position.  Bay Area examples - OTA Channel 20 on Comcast Cable 13, and the CW affiliate - OTA 44 on cable 12.  Both of them have been at the same cable location for years - 4 decades in the case of Channel 44 - since the Viacom Cable days.  Why change now?

[OhioMediaWatch]

Here, the stations once known as "PBS 45 & 49" are now "Western Reserve PBS".  The recognition is that people tune into a bunch of different channels (analog cable, digital cable, satellite, etc.) to get the programming that is identical on both of those over-air facilities.

The company's overall branding is now "Western Reserve Public Media", noting that the content can also be accessed on the station's website, and that other media projects won't necessarily have to be tied to WNEO/Alliance and WEAO/Akron.  PBS member station WVIZ/25 frequently uses its "ideastream" branding, shared with co-owned NPR outlet WCPN/90.3.

Commercially, most of the major Cleveland market stations are still channel number believers.  But the CW network affiliate has not used its channel number "55" in some time.  It's known as "WBNX-The CW" exclusively.  I can't even remember the last time they had "55" in the logo, as a WB network affiliate I believe.

About the mapping:  How would our "use the RF channel number" poster deal with the situation here?

NBC affiliate WKYC/3 will eventually move its digital facility to RF 17.

17 is currently occupied by WDLI/Canton, the TBN O&O here.

17's digital is on 39, but they want to move it to 49 - the current analog home of the aforementioned WEAO/Akron (which is staying on digital 50).

Would the poster here require WKYC to be "17" (a number long associated with a religious broadcaster) and WDLI to be "49" once it moves (a number long associated with a PBS station)?  Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The receivers can map, and map without the person operating it using the RF channel number.