Atlanta Broadcasting Institute training

[OutOfTheBiz]

Yeah, but the fact that there aren't as many radio stations as McDonald's restaurants isn't a recent development or 'sign of the times.' People think of 1970s and 80s as being the golden era of radio, but there are as many on-air people making 'decent money' today in Atlanta than there were in 1985.

Are you insane, or joking?  I hope it's the second...

In 1985 every single station had an entire full-time airstaff covering 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  All of the Top 10-15 stations had a full morning show with several key talent, plus most with news and traffic.  Probably 10-12 full time salaries PER STATION.  That's 200+ on-air jobs.   How many stations in the Top 20 today have live talent in ever daypart?  I think it's a very safe estimate that there are less than half of those jobs still in existance today, and if you include off-air salaries like MD's, Prod Dir's and Promo Dirs it's probably closer to about 30% of the jobs remaining today from 25 years ago.

THAT'S the reality.

[CompleteGame]

Are you insane, or joking?  I hope it's the second...

Hopefully, its not either one. I'm making the point that there are many, many more signals (and jobs) than there were in 1985. Back then, there were, what, 6-7 viable FMs? Z-93, 94-Q, 96 rock, v-103, b-98 (which was in its infancy as a legit station and called FM99), warm 100 and maybe there's another obvious one I'm forgetting. Now, there are triple that number on the FM side alone.

The Atlanta radio market grew in great measure. That's all I'm saying.

I also wouldn't think, using your example, that there were 10-12 inflation-adjusted on-air positions at each station making $75,000.

[Knowsnews2]

Are you insane, or joking?  I hope it's the second...

Hopefully, its not either one. I'm making the point that there are many, many more signals (and jobs) than there were in 1985. Back then, there were, what, 6-7 viable FMs? Z-93, 94-Q, 96 rock, v-103, b-98 (which was in its infancy as a legit station and called FM99), warm 100 and maybe there's another obvious one I'm forgetting. Now, there are triple that number on the FM side alone.

The Atlanta radio market grew in great measure. That's all I'm saying.

I also wouldn't think, using your example, that there were 10-12 inflation-adjusted on-air positions at each station making $75,000.

OK...I'm done with this thread.  It's obvious you're a shill.  Radio jobs are vanishing at an ever increasing pace.  Voice tracking, automation and the spread of syndication have killed off most on-air DJ jobs.  Stations don't need a live voice and one DJ can cover dayparts on multiple stations (one day you'll need to meet both Jordan Graye and Kate McCarthy).  People don't go to broadcast schools to become board ops.  They want to be on-air stars.  That's why they cough up everything they have.   

You're the owner of a business that makes money be selling hope.  Nothing else.  Just hope.  It's what a bookie does.  The reality of your business was spelled out by you a few posts back when you said that a lisp or a stutter doesn't stop someone from getting a job on the production side.  And, of course, I'm sure you tell them before they pay up that their chances of getting an on-air job is close to zero.  Right?

There's a reason ABI and CSB closed down.  The business has changed rapidly in the past 10 years.  Jobs are gone in radio.  But keep cashing those checks and telling your pigeons that there are more jobs today than in 1985.  And, while you're at it, tell them that Santa Claus still exists. 

[Richard Kimball]

Obviously our friend over there either failed to notice or doesn't really care that THOUSANDS of people have been fired from radio jobs over the past several months. I guess as long as he can keep finding suckers to pay his bills.... On another thread a few people are applauding the fact that the Regular Guys are syndicating. Why don't you ask yourselves how many local morning shows this will replace before you try to convince us this is a good thing?

[CompleteGame]

Agree to disagree, I guess.

Of the last 20 sports school graduates we've had, 19 are in the tv/radio field. The majority are on a payroll.

If that makes me a shill, I guess I'm a shill.

I'm bullish on local tv and radio. Hopefully, most of the people on this board are too.

[OutOfTheBiz]

Are you insane, or joking?  I hope it's the second...

Hopefully, its not either one. I'm making the point that there are many, many more signals (and jobs) than there were in 1985. Back then, there were, what, 6-7 viable FMs? Z-93, 94-Q, 96 rock, v-103, b-98 (which was in its infancy as a legit station and called FM99), warm 100 and maybe there's another obvious one I'm forgetting. Now, there are triple that number on the FM side alone.

The Atlanta radio market grew in great measure. That's all I'm saying.

I also wouldn't think, using your example, that there were 10-12 inflation-adjusted on-air positions at each station making $75,000.

Z-93, 94Q, Peach 94.9; 96Rock, Fox97, B99, Warm 100, Kicks101, Lake 102, V103, WALR104, Y106,

That's 12 right there.  The other "viable" FM's I assume you include in today's list were already on the air in 1985.  955 The Beat was WNGC Athens.  Hot1079 was Z108 in Macon.  Rock 100.5 was WHMA in Anniston, AL.  97.5 was WKUE in Fayetteville.  Viva 105.7 was WCHK in Canton.  Sure, at the time they were not considered "Atlanta" stations, but they were all fully operating stations with live 24/7 programming, and thus, full time jobs in radio.  That takes us to 17.

The truly NEW signals since then are limited to 107.5, 105.3, and 96.7 (signed on in 1985, incidentally).

1985: 17 FM signals
2009: 20 FM signals

That's not exactly "many, many more stations."  And consider the fact that this new total includes simulcasts, major cluster consolidation, a high-percentage of out-of-market syndicated shows and voice tracked dayparts, the total number of specifically "on-air" jobs is likely less than half of what it was in 1985. That's not even beginning to account for the loss of jobs in management roles.  In 1985 every single station had a Program Director, Production Director and Promotions Director, and many had News Directors too.  It's almost always the case today where a single person handles that role for several stations within a building's cluster.  Probably only 30% of the the jobs from 1985 that still exist in those areas.

We haven't even STARTED talking about the AM stations - most of which are exclusively programmed with sydicated or national programming.


Bottom line:  To suggest in any way shape or form that more opportunities exist for employment in Atlanta radio today vs. 1985 is completley laughable.  Either you simply don't care about the truth of this situation, or you simply have absolutely no firsthand knowledge of business in this market and therefore no idea what you're talking about.  Either way, the thought that you are encouraging people to invest in a career in this field based on this dishonesty/ignorance is a pretty scary thought. 

[CompleteGame]

I think we need an arbiter to settle the definition of "viable," outofthebiz. By viable, I mean a station with market share, a good piece of agency business, and well-known positioning within the Atlanta market. Like z93, v103, 94q or 96rock.

Going through some of yours....In 1985, Gainesville's 106.7 was barely in its infancy as an Atlanta move-in. 104.1 was a Newnan move-in that eventually joined 106.7 a few years later. 97.1 was Hugh Christian's move-in toy from Gainesville that was still a couple of years from being a player for Shamrock. Kicks was just a few years into its existence and not nearly the power it is today. You're saying Lake 102 could have paid anyone (much less 10-12) the 1985 equivalent of $75,000? No way. And I dont recall that 104.7 had any money or momentum behind it until the very late 80s. None of these stations would have had much if any real payroll. (That would change within 4-5 years.)

Atlanta FM radio in 1985 was much, much quieter than it is today.

I'm certainly not arguing some of those frequencies didnt exist. But most of them were just starting to operate or penetrate and had no real payroll, which was my original point...

And I think I will wrap up my end of the thread here, so its all yours, outofthebiz!

[OutOfTheBiz]

We're obviously debating apples and oranges here.   Not sure when the "$75,000" water mark got introduced into this topic, but it wasn't by me.  My point is and has been the number of salaried jobs available for on-air and off-air people in the programming and promotions side of radio.  IN 1985 all of those stations were fully staffed. They HAD to be, since unless you were running a Sonomag cart automation system, you either had a live body in a control room or you signed off the air.  None of the stations I mentioned were "daytimers."  Every one of those stations was listed in the 12+ Arbs published every quarter, so as for having "market share" they most certainly did.

In 1985 I was working at one of the above mentioned rimshot frequencies that have since moved into Atlanta.  You are correct that no one was making $75K in 1985, but everyone on the staff was making a liveable salary - driving newish cars, paying their rent, buying groceries and having a little cash to spend for fun.  That's what most people imagine when you talk about a "job" in this world anyway.  If we were doing OK in the small fringe city, I would imagine the folks with the experience and talent to be doing those same jobs in a Top 10 market were making $10-15k more than we were, which more than makes up for the cost of living difference. 

It would take a little digging, but I think we should have folks chime into this thread with a listing of today's Top 15 stations in ATL and a list of exactly how many live dayparts each has.  Shouldn't be that hard, plenty of people on this board that know a lot about Atlanta radio.

[rolloneup]

When CC goes to regional radio at the end of the month and gets rid of a bunch of jocks tell us again why people should pay thousands of dollars to go to broadcast school. Where are these jobs because I'm looking and have not found anything.

[OutOfTheBiz]

One more comment on completegame's idea of measuring the job market in terms of "$75,000 a year" jobs.

If you are telling ANYONE attending a broadcasting school that they have even a .01 percent chance of earning that kind of money in radio on-air jobs with anything less than 10 years of experience, then you are flat out lying to them.  I challenge you to name me ONE example of any broadcast school graduate earning money like that without putting in the years of work needed to develop talent and move up.

And for your 19 of 20 graduates who are "on a payroll" - how many of those 19 are making your beloved $75k?  For that matter, how many are in a salaried position or have a full-time position making more than $10/hour?  How many actually have their voices heard on the air on a daily basis?