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Author Topic: Time to reconsider AM stereo?  (Read 13318 times)
pocket-radio
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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #110 on: September 16, 2009, 07:32:06 PM »

I think when the labels starting suing it's customers, they were banking on the hype from the stupid drive-by news media. And it worked for awhile, now it's more like who cares. And who cares about the drive by news media.

You're right, they chase down some single women with kids, to sue them for 10 million bucks
for downloading 10 songs. They win their case, the poor people can't pay and end up going bankrupt.

The labels have to blame someone for stinking cd sales, so it might as well be the above mentioned women and her kids above... Who else can they blame?   

 
 
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audioguy
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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #111 on: September 16, 2009, 08:56:15 PM »

I don't agree with some of the policies of the recording industry, but stealing is still stealing... and it's wrong! Unfortunately, as in many other legal matters, the lawyers and the courts go way beyond what is a fair settlement. That is a big part of the reason we pay so much for health care.

There is one aspect of this that is relevant to radio, and that is the fact that the recording industry has priced themselves out of the market for many radio stations. That's one reason why there is little or no music on the air today. They play snips of music in between the talk segments. It's not because AM radio can't be used for music.
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Proud owner of a classical low power high-fidelity AM radio station
TheBigA
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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #112 on: September 16, 2009, 10:49:53 PM »


And by the same token, what would "major corporation X" have to say when  I send a bill for the past several years of advertising for them?


They will say they didn't ask you to play their music, and in fact they don't want you to play their music unless you get a license and pay them.  The music belongs to them, and you're stealing it.  In order for you to send a bill, you need a willing buyer and willing seller.  That didn't happen.  You just took their music and put it on your radio station. 

I'm not saying I agree with any of this, but that is the mindset of these folks. A lot of Part 15 broadcasters have received letters from BMI and ASCAP, and some stations have been forced to shut down. Go to the Part 15 message board.  Search the web for "ellen lawsuit."  Read what the major labels are doing to the Ellen DeGenerous TV show.  They are suing her because she played music on her TV show, and didn't get it licensed from the labels.

Seriously: Check with a lawyer.  You're breaking the law.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 10:55:21 PM by TheBigA » Logged
Tom Wells
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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #113 on: September 17, 2009, 02:36:04 AM »


And by the same token, what would "major corporation X" have to say when  I send a bill for the past several years of advertising for them?


They will say they didn't ask you to play their music, and in fact they don't want you to play their music unless you get a license and pay them.  The music belongs to them, and you're stealing it.  In order for you to send a bill, you need a willing buyer and willing seller.  That didn't happen.  You just took their music and put it on your radio station. 

I'm not saying I agree with any of this, but that is the mindset of these folks. A lot of Part 15 broadcasters have received letters from BMI and ASCAP, and some stations have been forced to shut down. Go to the Part 15 message board.  Search the web for "ellen lawsuit."  Read what the major labels are doing to the Ellen DeGenerous TV show.  They are suing her because she played music on her TV show, and didn't get it licensed from the labels.

Seriously: Check with a lawyer.  You're breaking the law.

I collected the music by buying it, over the years.  What about used records? I still paid for them. This is no downloaded collection.
I seriously doubt the Brunswick, Balke, and Collender company is going spring forth from the grave, demanding royalties from a 1925 record.

But thats not what I was specifically referring to.  I'm talking about actual commercials, spots, advertisiments for businesses.
Some are long defunct, some are still in business selling the same products.
The get real, valuable exposure for their current products today, in the here and now.
It would seem they are due a bill for ad time.  If properly paid for, it would easily pay royalty obligations so I could send a check to the music companies,
but then, they STILL won't be paying any money to the estate of Hasil Adkins, TV Slim, Louie Prima, any of the little punk bands, independent bands that never went on big labels, or ME for MY original recordings.  They'd send it all to big artists who have lawyers.
As long as this inequity remains, they are derelict and immoral. 
What about VOXX records, whose label clearly states, " Any unauthorized playing, copying, hiring, lending, hiring or airplay of this record would be appreciated."
As long as the labels and artists are not concerned with making proper ayments to ALL the artists whose works air on my station, they are bereft of any
moral ground to even ASK for payments.  Is the concern that someone is running tape recorder and won't be motivated to go out and purchase the recording?
That was the concern in 1974, when labels began to demand that stations cease playing complete album sides.
So today they'd be worried that someone would be taping an AM radio station, saving music to a private collection, and cutting into their business?
What about music simply NOT available for purchase?  It's ridiculous to suggest that if a recording is so commercially unviable as to be ignored and unavailable,
that it cannot be played because there's no mechanism to pay somebody for the airing of the recording.
I have number of live recordings by long-gone bands, people I know here in Chicago.  They're HAPPY to know their works are getting exposure,
and are more concerned that people get to enjoy their work, whether or not they get paid.  They never got rich, or even made enough money when the bands were in existence to ever get past the cassette distribution method.  ASCAP and BMI aren't looking out for them.

If radio/music royalty "laws" were applied to normal human sexual morals, only prostitution would be legal, and even sexual relations within marriage would be illegal because no one is getting PAID for it.  This is beyond immoral.
By remaining steadfastly non-commercial I will remain true to the art of music radio. 
Naturally I hope someone likes the music enough to go buy recordings that are available, that's why the whole issue of royalties is upside down.
Stations should be paid for promoting artists, creating demand that would otherwise not exist.
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Valparaiso Technical Institute 1982, Analog engineer, AM pt 15, inventor with 2 issued patents, former SW pirate. Now offering antique radio repair/restoration and alignment.  Stop just wishing that old radio worked!
AM1620 podcasts ->      http://thomasjwells.podomatic.com/
HowardMBurgers
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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #114 on: September 17, 2009, 07:19:01 AM »

Tom you can certainly take the chance of being hit with a lawsuit and lose everything.  In the end I hope that doesn't occur, but if you were to get caught, the argument that because you originally purchased the music somehow gives you blanket permission to broadcast it to others, won't hold up in court.  Going back to my Microsoft example; your thinking is equal from a legal perspective to saying 'hey, since I bought this copy of MS Office, I should be able to give it all to my friends'!  And finally no, just because the original artist is long since dead, doesn't mean ASCAP or BMI pays any less attention.  I for a fact know that every time Rudolf The Red Nose Reindeer gets played endlessly around Christmas, Gene Autry's family still receives their annual payment.

But enough of this music royalty debate.. How bout' that AM stereo!  Oh wait... 
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Tom Wells
rimember

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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #115 on: September 17, 2009, 09:14:17 AM »

I had designs and plans to go stereo with an upper/lower sideband approach modulating at 100khz where it's eaiser to to desgn sharper RF filters, then mixing up to the desired output frequency, but I gave that up when AM stereo fizzled and iboc was approved.

Still no opinions on sending a bill to the advertisers?
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Valparaiso Technical Institute 1982, Analog engineer, AM pt 15, inventor with 2 issued patents, former SW pirate. Now offering antique radio repair/restoration and alignment.  Stop just wishing that old radio worked!
AM1620 podcasts ->      http://thomasjwells.podomatic.com/
mmnassour
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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #116 on: September 17, 2009, 09:40:16 AM »



Still no opinions on sending a bill to the advertisers?


Yep.  It's the best possible way to get yourself hauled into court.

So far, IMHO, you've flown under their radar.  Start stirring the political pot and draw attention to what you're doing and you'll regret it.

Quote
If radio/music royalty "laws" were applied to normal human sexual morals, only prostitution would be legal, and even sexual relations within marriage would be illegal because no one is getting PAID for it.  This is beyond immoral.
By remaining steadfastly non-commercial I will remain true to the art of music radio.

Good GOD man, in what fairy tale world do you live?  With no disrespect to you, the suits don't care about any of that crap. Do you understand WHAT your purchase when you purchase a CD or LP?  Generally (and there are exceptions) it's only a license to listen in private, NOT to broadcast.  You've admitted using their copyrighted material without permission or payment.  That. Is. Illegal.

I'll bet your station is NOT incorporated.  That means you will be sued individually.  Get a big judgment against your person and you run the risk of losing everything at worst, or bankruptcy at best.  So you tell us...is that risk worth playing a few songs and tweaking some corporate noses?

You make the call.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 09:51:30 AM by mmnassour » Logged
TheBigA
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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #117 on: September 17, 2009, 04:17:51 PM »


I collected the music by buying it, over the years.  What about used records? I still paid for them. This is no downloaded collection.


That's not the point.  Your purchase of that music only entitles you to play it in the privacy of your home.  The minute you put it on the radio, your role in the equation changes

Don't believe me.  Ask a lawyer.  Don't wait til the collection agency shows up.  If you're in Chicago, and more than two people can receive your station, you'll be getting a notice very soon.


Still no opinions on sending a bill to the advertisers?
.

Try it.  Tell me what happens.  If they allow interent access from prison.
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audioguy
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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #118 on: September 17, 2009, 09:01:59 PM »

I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it, when you buy a CD or other recorded media, you are not actually purchasing the content. You are buying the plastic disc and a license to enjoy the recorded material in the privacy of your home. You do not have the right to play it in a public place, nor to broadcast it such that others can listen.

Many people use Part 15 transmitters to "broadcast" recordings around their home. Again, this is not legal advice, but if your transmission is not receivable beyond your own property, I would tend not to worry about getting in trouble with anyone. If you are using an "efficient" Part 15 AM transmitter that does cover a larger area with a receivable signal, I think you have exposed yourself to a potential risk of copyright infringement unless you pay for a license-- particularly if you advertise or promote your "station", and it is clear that you are "broadcasting" with the intent for others to listen in. I am sure that is true of some of the users of this board.

Everyone must make their own choices in this regard-- it is similar to the issue of compliance with FCC rules. If you comply, you don't have anything to worry about. If you don't, then you must either be willing to accept the risk of being caught or else have a big bank account.

Now, this is not the Community Radio board, but I will note in passing that CQUAM is practical for low power AM operation, whereas HD radio is not for at least two reasons: there is not enough power to make it work, and the licensing fees.
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TheRover
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Re: Time to reconsider AM stereo?
« Reply #119 on: September 18, 2009, 01:20:17 AM »

I don't agree with some of the policies of the recording industry, but stealing is still stealing... and it's wrong! Unfortunately, as in many other legal matters, the lawyers and the courts go way beyond what is a fair settlement. That is a big part of the reason we pay so much for health care.

There is one aspect of this that is relevant to radio, and that is the fact that the recording industry has priced themselves out of the market for many radio stations. That's one reason why there is little or no music on the air today. They play snips of music in between the talk segments. It's not because AM radio can't be used for music.

I'm all for Radio paying Peformance royaltes... NO MORE FREE RIDE.... The "Hits" you promote "for free" aren't of any lasting value to me, in the first place..... NO MORE FREE RIDE..... and whatever damage that causes to the "Business" of radio.... SO BE IT !!!!

BECAUSE..... STEALING  ...IS STEALING !!!
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