Time to reconsider AM stereo?

[DavidEduardo]

As I said in my rantpost, Radio Disney is there for park promotion only.

Actually, it is there for Disney brand promotion, not park promotion. It's a lot like ESPN radio, which gnerally is not the hottest thing in sports radio but which reinforces the ESPN name as being present in all aspects of sports.

The Radio Disney brand is used for radio stations in many of the countries of Latin America, but those are not kids stations as there is very little "kid music" and such in Spanish. Instead, the stations are generally AC (music mostly in English), aimed at parents who are upscale and who might buy Disney DVDs, take kids to Disney movies, or buy Disney merchandise in Quito or Guatemala City or Bs. As.

Again, it is brand enhancement tailored to the economy and market.

[HowardMBurgers]

As I said in my rantpost, Radio Disney is there for park promotion only.

The mouse wants to bring everybody to Disney World for vacation. Deals so attractive, a family need not go or see anything that is not Disney o&o. From cruises to excursions to roller coasters to Disney owned islands off the Florida coast. Every place you turn will be a Disney symbol. It starts with the idea to keep it in sight and mind and that is Radio Disney.

hmmm. Seems to me that a guy named Sarnoff thought of that years ago when he was building a radio network. And a guy named Crosley when he was trying to sell spots at a 500kw AM radio station in Cincy, too.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

As David mentioned, RD is intended for more than just 'Park Promotion'; mainly for the Disney kid-centric movie, artist (Hanna Montana), and product placements.  Whether it's had any impact is in debate.

Also to clarify, Sarnoff and Crosley's orginal motivation for radio networks and large stations were to promote and advertise the parent companies products.  Secondary advertising came as a premimum.  Westinghouse, RCA, Crosely, all made consumer electronic devices, including radios and TV's (Crosely wasn't a big TV manufacturer though), heavily promoting them in the shows.  RKO was built to promote RKO movies.  It wasn't until the late 1950's, when radio really went out on it's own as a advertising driven, stand-alone business model not focused on just promoting a parent company product.

[Tom Wells]

Re: Crosley    I had 3 presses to maintain in Erlanger, KY, right by the Cinncinatti airport, They had a Crosley refrigerator with a built-in radio in the platemaking department.   Both the radio and fridge still worked just fine in the 1990's.   Looked like a late 1930's unit.

And what's wrong with the way AM used to work?
AM 1080 in Chicago...daytimes I could listen to WNWI Valparaiso, IN or WPON Pontiac Illinois, by turning the loop antenna.
Then, at night I had a choice of WTIC Hartford, Conn, or W??? Forth Worth, TX. 

Now, it's some foreign language (Bosnian or Serbian) 24hrs a day, and of no use to me whatever.
I miss WRVA, WBAP, KSL, KOMA, WSM, WABC, WRVA , etc, that were just regular stations anyone could hear in Chicago.
I don't need a 24 hour Serbian service.  I do need the cheap lamp dimmers to go back to wherever they came from.

No one is interested in a petition to the FCC regarding non-compliant "unintentional" radiators?

[DavidEduardo]

I don't need a 24 hour Serbian service. 

But there are likely local residents numbering in the tens of thousands who do need such a service; that station likely helps that community identify merchants, services and such available to them as well as focusing on content of specific interest to that group.

WRVA contributes nothing but the "cheap thrill" of hearing it to the community you live in, the Chicago community.

[BRNout]

Re: Crosley    I had 3 presses to maintain in Erlanger, KY, right by the Cinncinatti airport, They had a Crosley refrigerator with a built-in radio in the platemaking department.   Both the radio and fridge still worked just fine in the 1990's.   Looked like a late 1930's unit.

And what's wrong with the way AM used to work?
AM 1080 in Chicago...daytimes I could listen to WNWI Valparaiso, IN or WPON Pontiac Illinois, by turning the loop antenna.
Then, at night I had a choice of WTIC Hartford, Conn, or W??? Forth Worth, TX. 

Now, it's some foreign language (Bosnian or Serbian) 24hrs a day, and of no use to me whatever.
I miss WRVA, WBAP, KSL, KOMA, WSM, WABC, WRVA , etc, that were just regular stations anyone could hear in Chicago.
I don't need a 24 hour Serbian service.  I do need the cheap lamp dimmers to go back to wherever they came from.

No one is interested in a petition to the FCC regarding non-compliant "unintentional" radiators?

AM 1080 in Chicago is mainly Polish programming provided by PolNet - not Serbian and the language is no closer to Serbian than English is to Danish.   There's a very large Polish population in Chicago that is served by that station, so I have to disagree with your comment as much as I'd LOVE to be able to hear Red Sox games on WTIC. 

As for WRVA, WBAP and WSM - they come in fine most nights.  The very unnecessary WRLL boxes out KSL and KOMA's absence has to do with a format change and their directional signal beaming it farther away from Chicago than (perhaps) in years past.   Now, WABC's disappearance from the Chicagoland nighttime dial is thanks to this travesty known as IBOC.  Something CAN and SHOULD be done to pull the plug on it's use for nighttime broadcasting on AM.   

I have far more issues with "intentional" radiators like IBOC than with dimmers and other household stuff. 

WRVA contributes nothing but the "cheap thrill" of hearing it to the community you live in, the Chicago community.

Ironically, I was listening to WRVA for a little while last night because of it's later (than WIND) feed of the Savage Nation.  So it contributed something to me - at least until I decided to listen to something else... 

[Tom Wells]

If it were available today, WRVA would offer nothing more than the cheap thrill of direct reception.  At one time it offered unique programming, like all the others.....even if just a jukebox at night, it had its own personality and warmth, and could not be mistaken for KRLD or WWL.   WWL had cajun music, WRVA had some deep holler music. WSM was bluegrass, WBAP had a half-nation trucker show of real use to anyone on the road, and WLW put one on years later after Bill Mack went to the bird. 

Etc. Etc. Etc. And each new compact flourescent kicks more discontinuous current switching noise back into  AC neutrals everywhere.
Why not just call for the abandonment of MW outright?  I'm shocked at the lack of response regarding electrical noisemakers.
Televisions made me cranky the 1970's, the color TV's 3.58 Mhz color synch systems made all kinds of whistles in AM MW signals.
My appreciation for industrial music and noises is no doubt influenced by listening to, and really LIKING the sound of 2 or 3 signals
mixing well, and really listening to and enjoying a portion that varied 70-20% of a "desired" signal, vs "what I got".  That's not the same as desired/undesired.  The wavy, ethereal nature of groundwave and  skywave  AM is pure magic, whether MW or SW.
I love driving through a weird null on a local huge AM and pondering the current influences on that location.
But not as much as hearing a song I've never heard before, which is somehow causing my "goodmusic" meter to peg, and I don't care where from.
This doesn't make me a dxer, only someone who did realize what we had before it was gone.
Thank God I got to have some really nice hi-fi living-room radios ( a matched pair, at that ) before it was all over.
I have brain-plans to do a high-Q IF-like frequency split-tuned Kahn-ish u/l pt 15 AM stereo that I would mix and upconvert to
1620 and use   for the pair on either side of the ( brick, yet-non-functional )fireplace.


Re: WNWI  and not speaking all languages...
Perhaps the reason I thought it was Serbian is because the man who bought the station from Valparaiso, In was Serbian, and I'm pretty sure there has been some Chezhnian(sp?) and Serbian brokered time shows.   It would be foolish for someone to not cater to the huge Polish  audience here.  It was nice to hear Valparaiso, though. I miss hearing what the prices paid are at some of the local grain elevators, etc.

[badjef]

As David mentioned, RD is intended for more than just 'Park Promotion'; mainly for the Disney kid-centric movie, artist (Hanna Montana), and product placements.  Whether it's had any impact is in debate.

Ratings intrinsic value to advertising has always been in question. PPM is too new but the loudest critics are those I've had my doubts about anyway. Objectivity does not always feed the pocket.

Also to clarify, Sarnoff and Crosley's orginal motivation for radio networks and large stations were to promote and advertise the parent companies products.  Secondary advertising came as a premimum.  Westinghouse, RCA, Crosely, all made consumer electronic devices, including radios and TV's (Crosely wasn't a big TV manufacturer though), heavily promoting them in the shows.  RKO was built to promote RKO movies.  It wasn't until the late 1950's, when radio really went out on it's own as a advertising driven, stand-alone business model not focused on just promoting a parent company product.

If you let yourself be out of sight and mind, not only are you in the twilight zone but also out of operating revenue for your AM station.
Perception has always fed the radio reality.

10-q,
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

[DavidEduardo]

Ratings intrinsic value to advertising has always been in question.

That's a vague overstatement. Advertisers have always desired some kind of metric to establish pricing levels, which is why we have circulation audits for print and such. Advertisers know that ratings don't show effectiveness, as the medium is only a small part of the advertising process that includes pricing, availability, distribution, message, need, etc.

PPM is too new

Too new?

By that standard, HDTV, satellite radio and the iPhone and the iPod are too new to a much greater extent.

The PPM has been under development for nearly two decades, and in test since arond 2000, in significant tests since 2002 and currency in some markets for 3 years.

but the loudest critics are those I've had my doubts about anyway. Objectivity does not always feed the pocket.

There are not critics of the methodology, just of the sample design and recruit techniques. Interestingly, Arbitron could solve all the criticisms were radio stations to pay for a more labor intensive recruit process and for a larger sample. But radio won't pay more, yet it blames Arbitron.

[Going back to Nashville]

Ratings intrinsic value to advertising has always been in question.

That's a vague overstatement. Advertisers have always desired some kind of metric to establish pricing levels, which is why we have circulation audits for print and such. Advertisers know that ratings don't show effectiveness, as the medium is only a small part of the advertising process that includes pricing, availability, distribution, message, need, etc.

PPM is too new

Too new?

By that standard, HDTV, satellite radio and the iPhone and the iPod are too new to a much greater extent.

The PPM has been under development for nearly two decades, and in test since arond 2000, in significant tests since 2002 and currency in some markets for 3 years.

but the loudest critics are those I've had my doubts about anyway. Objectivity does not always feed the pocket.

There are not critics of the methodology, just of the sample design and recruit techniques. Interestingly, Arbitron could solve all the criticisms were radio stations to pay for a more labor intensive recruit process and for a larger sample. But radio won't pay more, yet it blames Arbitron.

There are not critics of HD radio, just the design and the technique it uses to create unwanted noise up
            and down the dial. Interestingly, CBS, CC, etc., could solve all the criticisms were they to shut off the
            HD for a more sound, and proven analog system. But CBC, CC etc., won't do so, yet it blames power
            lines.

[badjef]

I think this whole argument misses the point.

Stereo lends itself to depth perception. Whether it is HD or Kahn or C-(fill in the blank), or any other sytem the future comes up with. FM overtook AM not for fidelity, but for the feeling by the listener that they were filled with the music - be it speakers or under headphones. TV adopted the Zenith system in 1984. The 1st tv program to embrace it was Miami Vice. Just as color was Bonanza.
The fidelity came with FM and less invasive noise.

TV, FM, and AM all could have gone stereo at the same time but again the FCC screwed that up. It was felt TV was too new. AM had enough listeners. FM was given stereo because of the decision to move FM from the 45 to the 88-108mc band and thereby making obsolete the FM radios and stations at the time, not to mention Ch#1.
enough hiostory...

AM stereo allows that over the HD because it is there more often than not, as with Kahn. It was there and stable. HD and C-?, did not do that therefore the market won't accept it and didn't.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!