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Author Topic: When will the HD be a full power increase?  (Read 2896 times)
audioguy
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2010, 02:23:53 PM »

"to allow commercial group operators to evade ownership caps via FM translators."

And my opinion, this is a total scam. If anything, translators should be used to provide relief to daytime AM'ers.
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Zach
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2010, 02:30:02 AM »

Well the point is, to hear more.  When your out in the middle of the country and only 2 local FM stations come in, yeah you wan to DX something to get more.   I still refuse to pay for radio because I can still get it for free.

That's kind of a contradiction, isn't it?  You can get radio for free but out in the boonies it IS often 2 locals (or less) and 3-4 weak signals.

You're literally getting what you pay for.

Sorry to kvetch on this, but this is my first year without XM and after having taken several major road trips across the fruited plain, I must say, I regret giving up my satellite radio.  It was down to Sirius, imho, ruining several good XM channels, that I decided to save my money.

And you know what?  Going back to terrestrial radio hasn't cut it for me.  HD is great in big cities where the signals are strong and the choices good… but on the open highway the preponderance of programming was either country or religious and I am a fan of neither.  And that was including DX.  Seriously, between say Oklahoma City and Amarillo?  It was a maddening amount of religious satellite rebroadcasters, C&W and a few off the bird CHRs and that was IT.  No real public radio, no classic rock, no jazz or college/indie stuff, not even any good talk radio, except a few distant AMs buried in noise.

I remember driving through the Navajo Nation on I-40 near the AZ/NM border and thinking, "Yep, I'm getting what I paid for.  Jack shit."

Not bringing my mp3 player on that trip was one of the biggest entertainment mistakes I've ever made. Wink

(And FWIW I listened to HD feeds of one kind or another almost exclusively while in LA, Vegas, OKC, Little Rock and St Louis…)
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Gatekeeper007
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2010, 04:28:27 AM »

Getting what you pay for sounds like a person best suited to be in the city most of the time.  I believe it started out at a cross roads or ocean port, then a small town, soon for some it became a small city, then a medium city, and then a big city, and now we have some people use to the city life which there is nothing wrong with but don't forget we all started the same way.  Also country music has the word country in it, our country is the USA and I think the two words started the same way also, and by the way there is nothing wrong with liking different types of music, as for HD radio I think in it's present form it is a bad idea, too many problems,  FM extra would be a lot better way to go.
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Zach
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2010, 10:30:00 AM »

FM extra would be a lot better way to go.

Howso?  The way I see it, it still has several problems inherent with HD radio.  There's still a delay between analog and digital because of processing times, as far as I know.  And that is one of the biggest gripes with HD — bad sync.

There's the issue of poor digital sound quality at low bit rates, and I don't see FMX fixing that if stations for for two or three subchannels.

There's the issue of coverage.  I don't have much experience with SCA reception so I cannot say if FMX would mimic SCA coverage areas, be better, or worse.  Input on that would be very much welcome.  If like HD it doesn't work outside the 60 dBu contour, that is still another problem.  I'm sure the digital dropout problem would still exist with FMX because it'd drop out whenever the analog signal did since it's being packaged inside the analog spectrum.

Finally, portable reception and battery life.  Are there any portable FMX prototype radios out?  If so, their battery life probably isn't all that hot, like HD radios.  So that's one more problem FMX would have along with HD.

The advantages I see are cheaper equipment and licensing.  That only benefits the station owner.
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Nick
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2010, 11:23:20 AM »

My portable HD radio lasts 10 hours on a full charge, about the same as my iPod.
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RadeoEngineer
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2010, 02:43:39 PM »

FM extra would be a lot better way to go.

Howso?  The way I see it, it still has several problems inherent with HD radio.  There's still a delay between analog and digital because of processing times, as far as I know.  And that is one of the biggest gripes with HD — bad sync.

With FMeXtra, there are no sync issues because it isn't designed to fault to the analog.  It also doesn't require that any digital channel be a duplicate of the analog.  It is a completely independant system operating on a subcarrier channel.  Different animal altogether.

There's the issue of poor digital sound quality at low bit rates, and I don't see FMX fixing that if stations for for two or three subchannels.

Actually, FMX does a pretty good job with audio.  It does depend on what you do with it.  You can run two full fidelity stereo channels or break it down to as many as nine low bandwidth channels.   It's up to the broadcaster what they want to do with it.

There's the issue of coverage.  I don't have much experience with SCA reception so I cannot say if FMX would mimic SCA coverage areas, be better, or worse.  Input on that would be very much welcome.  If like HD it doesn't work outside the 60 dBu contour, that is still another problem.  I'm sure the digital dropout problem would still exist with FMX because it'd drop out whenever the analog signal did since it's being packaged inside the analog spectrum.

Actual on air tests have shown that FMX remains robust out to the 54 dBu contour.

Finally, portable reception and battery life.  Are there any portable FMX prototype radios out?  If so, their battery life probably isn't all that hot, like HD radios.  So that's one more problem FMX would have along with HD.
To my knowledge, there aren't any portable FMX receivers out there, but I believe it has been shown that they can be built and operated at a low power consumption.

The advantages I see are cheaper equipment and licensing.  That only benefits the station owner.
Actually there are numerous advantages.  FMX is addressable meaning an operator could sell subscriptions, it doesn't cause interference to other stations, is very simple to operate and reliable as you could ask, and actually works well.  Now one of the problems is SCA isn't allowed for general broadcast by the FCC.  That's why SCA has always been a subscription service of sorts (with some exceptions such as reading service for the blind), but that rule could be changed and FMX on SCA be adopted.  This would open the door for just about any FM broadcaster to be a participant.

One big problem remains though.  What compelling programming would you put on all of these new channels?
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Zach
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2010, 07:50:04 PM »

Are there perchance any audio samples or demonstrations of how FMX sounds?  I can read and understand some about audio codecs, but the real deal is in hearing it myself.  One thing I've learned is that no one seems to hear this stuff like I do, so descriptions from others aren't real helpful for me.

(I hope it sounds better than satellite radio or HD.)
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ai4i
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2010, 10:50:08 PM »

Zach, have you not yet figured out that be it WMA, Real, MP3/4, AAC+, DAB, DRM, Sat, HD, or FMX, it all depends on how the bandwidth is proportioned. Any of the aforementioned can sound gr8 and any can sound like a prewar long distance phonecall via HF link.
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Zach
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2010, 05:03:52 AM »

Zach, have you not yet figured out that be it WMA, Real, MP3/4, AAC+, DAB, DRM, Sat, HD, or FMX, it all depends on how the bandwidth is proportioned. Any of the aforementioned can sound gr8 and any can sound like a prewar long distance phonecall via HF link.

Yes I understand that, but I still think a demo of the system is in order, best foot forward and all that.  I wanna hear what FMX sounds like with one digital channel on a standard FM broadcast (stereo, RDS carriers intact).  I wanna hear 'the best it can do'.  Is that too much to ask?
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RadeoEngineer
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Re: When will the HD be a full power increase?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2010, 08:25:55 AM »

Zach I don't have the time right now to do the research for you, but if you search the board you should find a great deal of info on FMeXtra provided by Lyle Henry from the L.A. area.  A couple of years ago he went cross country with an FMeXtra system and put it on several stations and did some pretty extensive testing.  Do some searching and you should find what you're looking for.
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