TIO-Re: A new low for Rush Limbaugh (if that's not redundant)...

[quadraphonic]

I still remember heading out on a call, and  tuning in to full-service 50,000 watt WBAP in Fort Worth on January 20, 2009, expecting to hear the rest of Obama's inauguration coverage that I was watching on TV.  Instead, they were carrying Limbaugh's regular program, and Limbaugh was saying "I hope he fails."  How can any American say that?  I was raised that whether your side won or lost an election, you always support..or at least work with...the winner. 

Look how Fox also started on Day 1 branding Obama a socialst...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35eRxxZ-Ar0

If you believe he wants to do lead America into socialism [or even if you only want to portray that to other people], and you're against socialism, would you want Obama to succeed?

If that's what he wants [and with universal healthcare, global warming tax initiatives, and providing-everything-for-everybody it seems like that's the lean], I hope he fails too.
America's had much worse said about plenty of people, politicians or otherwise. That's part of why they are only in office for four years, and we don't have kings.
If he fails, he'll be voted out, he'll just go back to Chicago and write a book. America will [hopefully] go on. No big alarm.

I would rather he succeed wildly by doing what's in the best interests of the nation, but I don't know if that's going to happen, or be an option.

[Talk_Dude]

I still remember heading out on a call, and  tuning in to full-service 50,000 watt WBAP in Fort Worth on January 20, 2009, expecting to hear the rest of Obama's inauguration coverage that I was watching on TV.  Instead, they were carrying Limbaugh's regular program, and Limbaugh was saying "I hope he fails."  How can any American say that?  I was raised that whether your side won or lost an election, you always support..or at least work with...the winner. 

Look how Fox also started on Day 1 branding Obama a socialst...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35eRxxZ-Ar0

I realize things were different a long time ago. That was then, this is now. As for recognizing that Obama's platform and agenda were socialist, that was clearly evident from his campaign speeches when he ran for the Senate. Considering that the man ran for President on a platform of liberal socialism, and was elected on a platform of liberal socialism, it's no surprise that people in the news media reported that he was a socialist.

Saying that Barack Obama is a socialist is like saying that he is biracial, with a Black father and a White mother. Both statements are simply acknowledgements of reality. And, neither fact is a pejorative that anyone needs to get his knickers in a twist about.

[Don C]

So thanks to Don C for this interesting thread and the thinking it caused all of us to engage in,

As much as I'd love to take credit, Holland is the one responsible for this thread. It really is an interesting discussion. I always find it interesting to find what other people find distasteful. It's good to know these things, whether we agree on where the line should be drawn or not.

[MattParker]

I realize things were different a long time ago. That was then, this is now. As for recognizing that Obama's platform and agenda were socialist, that was clearly evident from his campaign speeches when he ran for the Senate. Considering that the man ran for President on a platform of liberal socialism, and was elected on a platform of liberal socialism, it's no surprise that people in the news media reported that he was a socialist.

Saying that Barack Obama is a socialist is like saying that he is biracial, with a Black father and a White mother. Both statements are simply acknowledgements of reality. And, neither fact is a pejorative that anyone needs to get his knickers in a twist about.

Calling Obama a "socialist," is like calling Tea Baggers "fascists."  I suppose if one is far enough to the right, most everybody looks like a socialist.  I also notice that those who are quickest to brand someone a "socialist" are least informed on what socialism is or advocates.  Socialists do NOT: (1) Advocate bail-out or stimulus money for corporations.  (2)  Advocate health insurance "reform" involving private insurers.  In any other Western democracy, Obama would be considered a conservative.

[Holland Cooke]

A badge of honor!
Like getting-sent-to the Principal's office in junior high school.

Not sure WHY it's worth making-the-conversation harder-to-follow by putting-pieces-of-it-in-different-places.

This was a useful thread.

[Talk_Dude]

I realize things were different a long time ago. That was then, this is now. As for recognizing that Obama's platform and agenda were socialist, that was clearly evident from his campaign speeches when he ran for the Senate. Considering that the man ran for President on a platform of liberal socialism, and was elected on a platform of liberal socialism, it's no surprise that people in the news media reported that he was a socialist.

Saying that Barack Obama is a socialist is like saying that he is biracial, with a Black father and a White mother. Both statements are simply acknowledgements of reality. And, neither fact is a pejorative that anyone needs to get his knickers in a twist about.

Calling Obama a "socialist," is like calling Tea Baggers "fascists."  I suppose if one is far enough to the right, most everybody looks like a socialist.  I also notice that those who are quickest to brand someone a "socialist" are least informed on what socialism is or advocates.  Socialists do NOT: (1) Advocate bail-out or stimulus money for corporations.  (2)  Advocate health insurance "reform" involving private insurers.  In any other Western democracy, Obama would be considered a conservative.

Comparing socialists and fascists in that manner indicates one doesn't understand what socialists or fascists are. Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources. There is as much diversity within the socialist world on issues of implementation as there is within capitalism and most other political/economic schools of thought. It is not some monolithic structure with one single consensus of orthodoxy.

There are multiple alternatives for the government to acquire ownership of the means of production. For example, a government loaning a corporation money with the company's stock being held as collateral is one way for a government to take over ownership of the company. It's a clever ruse to call the loans a "bail out" or "stimulus money". It disguises the fact that there's an excellent chance that the government ends up owning a large portion of the stock of the company. Acquiring private insurance companies by including them in a government run program is another method of eventually acquiring ownership control of those companies.

The transition of a nation from capitalism to socialism is a gradual process, carried out in small increments. Any socialist who is leading a country that is in the earliest stages of the transition would appear to be "conservative" when compared to his counterpart in a country that is further along in the process.

[quadraphonic]

I thought we were just discussing.
No harm was intended anywhere that I know of.

[UpstateNYBill]

I still remember heading out on a call, and  tuning in to full-service 50,000 watt WBAP in Fort Worth on January 20, 2009, expecting to hear the rest of Obama's inauguration coverage that I was watching on TV.  Instead, they were carrying Limbaugh's regular program, and Limbaugh was saying "I hope he fails."  How can any American say that?  I was raised that whether your side won or lost an election, you always support..or at least work with...the winner. 

Look how Fox also started on Day 1 branding Obama a socialst...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35eRxxZ-Ar0

If you believe he wants to do lead America into socialism [or even if you only want to portray that to other people], and you're against socialism, would you want Obama to succeed?

If that's what he wants [and with universal healthcare, global warming tax initiatives, and providing-everything-for-everybody it seems like that's the lean], I hope he fails too.
America's had much worse said about plenty of people, politicians or otherwise. That's part of why they are only in office for four years, and we don't have kings.
If he fails, he'll be voted out, he'll just go back to Chicago and write a book. America will [hopefully] go on. No big alarm.

I would rather he succeed wildly by doing what's in the best interests of the nation, but I don't know if that's going to happen, or be an option.

Rush is anti-American. If El-Rushbo was truely a great American, he would have gone to Nevada to get laid at the Mustang Ranch rather than going to a 3rd world country. Rush hates America.

[MattParker]

Comparing socialists and fascists in that manner indicates one doesn't understand what socialists or fascists are.

My mistake.  I should have known better than to try to use metaphors or analogies. 

You provided a nice text book definition of socialism.  So how does the word apply to Obama.  The guy is many things but (by the definition you provided) he is not a socialist.  Not even close.  He even falls short to qualify as a social democrat.

[MattParker]

A badge of honor!
Like getting-sent-to the Principal's office in junior high school.

Not sure WHY it's worth making-the-conversation harder-to-follow by putting-pieces-of-it-in-different-places.

This was a useful thread.

I agree.  Better to move the whole thing than chop it up with parts here and there.  Alternatively, if a thread "hits a new low," then just lock it down.  Almost always the original topic has run its course way before then anyway.