DSPX AGC before Optimod

[FFoti]

Glad to know that you are the judge of broadcasting. No one has offended *YOU* by our business practices.

You conveniently chose to ignore the rest of my reply, which explained the scenario. Our company's success is based upon successful results throughtout the world. If you were as knowledgeable as you imply, then you'd know better.

-Frank Foti

> > If you don't like how the NYC stations sound then take
> your
> > rant to them.
>
> I will when you stop using them as the poster children for
> your company's success.  Like it or not, they are giving
> your products a reputation for grungy, distorted audio,
> regardless of what kind of super-whiz-bang clipper-o-matic
> features you implement.

[oldiesstation]

> Glad to know that you are the judge of broadcasting. No one
> has offended *YOU* by our business practices.
>
> You conveniently chose to ignore the rest of my reply, which
> explained the scenario. Our company's success is based upon
> successful results throughtout the world. If you were as
> knowledgeable as you imply, then you'd know better.
>
> -Frank Foti
>
> > > If you don't like how the NYC stations sound then take
> > your
> > > rant to them.
> >
> > I will when you stop using them as the poster children for
>
> > your company's success.  Like it or not, they are giving
> > your products a reputation for grungy, distorted audio,
> > regardless of what kind of super-whiz-bang clipper-o-matic
> HELLO, time to smoke the peace pipe here..Frank knows what his processors will do ,now if a station like settings that are alittle too aggressive, it is not Frank's fault..i prefer a more open sound myself and i point out most radios do have volume controls..omnia does outsell orban 5 to 1, plus omnia has great support, like Mark who has always been friendly and helpful.scott has a awesome product with the DSP_EXTRA,but they are at the marketing level Frank was when he started omnia.but Scott is very prompt in answering Emails at all times of the day and night..the extra is a clear winner and i will be comparing it to the omnia 6ex hd next week..but i am thinking they will be on even par but with the extra at less that half the price of the omnia 6, it may be the better bargain for more budget conscious broadcasters.But as we know processing is subjective so no one will always agree on the sound of a station.New York is balls  to the wall for those chr's.but CBS FM sounded good when i heard the Omnia 6.hey that why they have all those darn presets..at lease Frank and scott will do postings, so BOB ORBAN, whereever you are, come down from that ivory tower and participate in these discussions....
> >
>

[Les]

> BTW: I've noticed how much you favor the CRL gear. I've
> heard some poor sounding stations that *were* using that
> gear. Based upon your perspective, CRL should be held
> accoountable for their performance?

Maybe you can suggest a better idea for the AM I work with.
It's presently using a set of very old CRL processing/noise
reduction but, in addition, one very old and one very new
"shortwave" limiter that squashes bandwidth down to about
4-kHz.  Yes, that's intentional and, yes, it does sound
simply horrible on any kind of a decent receiver.  The
purpose is to maximize modulation and "reach" out to some
very distant, very tiny villages.  In those places there
are few decent radios; mostly as cheap as can be gotten and
many of the wind-up variety.  Yeah, a few "GE Super Radios"
and one or two of the "C Crane" type but in any one village
you can count those on one hand.

BTW, the two limiters have inputs and outputs parallelled and
AC is supplied to only one unit at any given time, remotely
controlled.  They're set up approximately the same and
switching is only done when the power supply fails in the one
in use; not uncommon.  There are two spare power supplies
sitting in little boxes, one right on top of each unit.

Any idea about something more modern that might accomplish the
same "reach" while not wreaking so much destruction?  It's a
25kW day/14kW night non directional with a very well kept
Nautel ND-25 driving an (ughhh) folded unipole whose bandwidth
wins no prizes.

______________
In government, as in gardens:

Moles are far more intelligent than are gophers!

[RadioDoc]

>  If a
> station's modulation meter looks like it's monitoring line
> voltage, then it's much more likely that your product is
> entirely responsible for it.
>

No, if a station's mod meter looks like that, it's the fault of the Engineer, GM, and PD.

You can't expect Frank, Bob, Scott, or anyone else to limit the way others use their product.  Does history need to repeat itself?  Why do you think there were so many aftermarket mods for the 8100?  It's because Bob Orban decided that the responsible thing would be to prevent the 8100 from doing bad things.  The market spoke, and now you can crank it all to 11 and produce square waves.

It's like saying Ford is responsible for speeders since they make a car that exceeds the speed limit.

I don't think so!

______________

[westlife]

> It's like saying Ford is responsible for speeders since they
> make a car that exceeds the speed limit.
>
> I don't think so!

However, if Ford was using speeders and other irresponsible drivers in their marketing campaign as proof of their vehicles' performance, then they would definitely be responsible for it.

The bottom line: Mr. Foti likes to tout the NYC FM stations as the premier examples of the success of his Omnia line of audio processors.  The trouble is, most of these stations sound like crap!  And yet he complains when his Omnias have developed a reputation for grungy, distorted audio, based on the way these stations sound?  If Mr. Foti doesn't want his products to become associated with the inferior sound of the NYC FM stations, then he should stop using them for self-promotional purposes, like this:

http://www.telos-systems.com/news/press/omnia_nyc14_2004.htm

______________

"This is the New York Emergency Broadcast System satellite channel.  They took the crosstown bus."

[FFoti]

Kevin,

Your view regarding the sound of NYC stations is only your opinion. Just because YOU may not like how these folks have setup their sound, doesn't make them wrong, or our product bad.

As stated prior, and which YOU keep choosing to ignor, Omnia processors are also used on many stations that choose to process less aggressively than NYC.

-Frank Foti

> > It's like saying Ford is responsible for speeders since
> they
> > make a car that exceeds the speed limit.
> >
> > I don't think so!
>
> However, if Ford was using speeders and other irresponsible
> drivers in their marketing campaign as proof of their
> vehicles' performance, then they would definitely be
> responsible for it.
>
> The bottom line: Mr. Foti likes to tout the NYC FM stations
> as the premier examples of the success of his Omnia line of
> audio processors.  The trouble is, most of these stations
> sound like crap!  And yet he complains when his Omnias have
> developed a reputation for grungy, distorted audio, based on
> the way these stations sound?  If Mr. Foti doesn't want his
> products to become associated with the inferior sound of the
> NYC FM stations, then he should stop using them for
> self-promotional purposes, like this:
>
> http://www.telos-systems.com/news/press/omnia_nyc14_2004.htm
>

[westlife]

> Your view regarding the sound of NYC stations is only your
> opinion. Just because YOU may not like how these folks have
> setup their sound, doesn't make them wrong, or our product bad.

I'm not saying your product is bad.  I'm saying your marketing is bad.

> As stated prior, and which YOU keep choosing to ignor, Omnia
> processors are also used on many stations that choose to
> process less aggressively than NYC.

Then why don't you use *these* stations as your Omnia poster children, instead of the balls-to-the-wall NYC stations?

______________

"This is the New York Emergency Broadcast System satellite channel.  They took the crosstown bus."

[dspxscott]

> You're obviously not aware that many of the critical and
> quality conscious broadcasters also have chosen Omnia.
> Swedish Radio, BBC, Danish Radio, and NRK to name a few, are
> some of the most critical broadcasters in the world. They
> spent significant amounts of time comparing all audio
> processors. In the end they chose Omnia, solely based upon
> performance and quality.
>

I don't know about the others but I personally know the BBC now generally favour Orban. They may have bought quite a lot of Omnias in the past but that doesn't mean they would buy Omnia again now. I know most of the BBC's NATIONAL stations use other brands than Omnia.
As for comparing all the audio processors... There until recently have only been two manufacturers. To test them all sometimes means flipping a coin, both with an O on each side. The coin is sometimes weighted on one side by MARKETING and a good local sales drive (:
I know several examples worldwide of radio stations buying into a processor brand and not being happy and then having to live with the decision for financial reasons, or the CE not wanting to get egg on his face by having to admit he went with the wrong brand. I don't want to turn this thread into bashing a brand or product (something I try to never do) but I thought it was worth a mention that some manufacturers of processors sometimes twist the information about who, why and where are using their products, in the name of MARKETING!
Best regards
Scott

[FFoti]

> > Your view regarding the sound of NYC stations is only your
>
> > opinion. Just because YOU may not like how these folks
> have
> > setup their sound, doesn't make them wrong, or our product
> bad.
>
> I'm not saying your product is bad.  I'm saying your
> marketing is bad.
>
> > As stated prior, and which YOU keep choosing to ignor,
> Omnia
> > processors are also used on many stations that choose to
> > process less aggressively than NYC.
>
> Then why don't you use *these* stations as your Omnia poster
> children, instead of the balls-to-the-wall NYC stations?
>

We have.

-Frank Foti

[FFoti]

> > You're obviously not aware that many of the critical and
> > quality conscious broadcasters also have chosen Omnia.
> > Swedish Radio, BBC, Danish Radio, and NRK to name a few,
> are
> > some of the most critical broadcasters in the world. They
> > spent significant amounts of time comparing all audio
> > processors. In the end they chose Omnia, solely based upon
>
> > performance and quality.
> >
>
> I don't know about the others but I personally know the BBC
> now generally favour Orban. They may have bought quite a lot
> of Omnias in the past but that doesn't mean they would buy
> Omnia again now. I know most of the BBC's NATIONAL stations
> use other brands than Omnia.
> As for comparing all the audio processors... There until
> recently have only been two manufacturers. To test them all
> sometimes means flipping a coin, both with an O on each
> side. The coin is sometimes weighted on one side by
> MARKETING and a good local sales drive (:
> I know several examples worldwide of radio stations buying
> into a processor brand and not being happy and then having
> to live with the decision for financial reasons, or the CE
> not wanting to get egg on his face by having to admit he
> went with the wrong brand. I don't want to turn this thread
> into bashing a brand or product (something I try to never
> do) but I thought it was worth a mention that some
> manufacturers of processors sometimes twist the information
> about who, why and where are using their products, in the
> name of MARKETING!
> Best regards
> Scott

Sorry again Scott,

Maybe you are not privy to the great BBC local radio processor shootout of a few years ago. Processors from (5) different companies were brought in and Omnia was choosen. Orban was among them. I know that these are on-air as we dialog with them all the time.

That outcome was not based on marketing.

-Frank Foti