KXOK VS KDWB 1960'S

[radioman148]

From the Laurelton Queens (NYC) area,    it was WPRO Providence in the day with a little WEJL Scranton if you nulled WPRO and caught a break from the searing violins of WVNJ 620.

But on those swell overnights when a lot of stations were off dial-wide,  KXOK could be pretty listenable.     Never did log KDWB,  though.

I'm impressed. I never knew KXOK could make it to NYC.

[radioman148]

CFCO comes into the northern burbs of Chicago during the day. A nice haul from Chatham, Ontario.

As you know, I'm about 25-30 miles west of you, and I've never heard them during the day except once in a while right after sunrise.  If anything, during the day here, I'll sometimes get snatches of KJSL....but even that's less frequent now that was the case as KXOK. 

I've driven by CFCO's array many times.  It's clearly visible about a mile or two north of the 401 freeway which connects Detroit-Windsor with Toronto.  Tall towers planted in level farm country ground with what I'd presume to be excellent conductivity.  No buildings, development, or anything similar nearby to obstruct or degrade the signal.

I'll have to check again soon. I know that as of a few years ago I could still hear CFCO during the day--weak but it was there.

[Schroedingers Cat]

A few years ago, for one year, CFCO had an affiliation agreement to air the Detroit Tigers PBP.  With just 10 kW day, and a 6 kW night signal pattern that exceeds the day signal in many parts of Metro Detroit, the signal far exceeded the signal of originating station 50 kW WXYT in many areas.  I don't know if it was the embarassment, the competition, or both, but the agreement ended after one year.  Since WXYT simulcasted and then exclusively moved to FM 97.1, the point is moot. I believe they still simulcast Detroit Tiger Baseball on 1270.

CFCO has a great signal.  The day pattern has a huge major lobe to the west.  Parallelogram patterns (this pattern uses a fifth tower in addtion) can be inflexible, though, and a null which appears to be unneccessary reduces radiation to the NW.  The night pattern however is at maximum in this direction.  When I was last near Chicago before IBOC hiss from WTMJ, I could hear CFCO day and night by just tuning in a car radio near Old Orchard.

[cyberdad]

CFCO used to put a respectable nighttime signal into the Detroit area even back when they were 1kw.  Definitely not competitive with the local signals, but still listenable.

I don't doubt at all that CFCO is doable daytime in the Chicago area.  I've just never been able to snag it myself.  I may be just a little too far west, but I'll probably give it another try.

[Scott Fybush]

CFCO is one of just two AM signals that are consistently listenable, day and night, both at my home in suburban Rochester NY and at my in-laws' place in Fort Wayne, Indiana, 500 miles west of here. (The other is WJR.)

[cyberdad]

Interesting stuff, Scott.  And impressive coverage.  Assuming CFCO is audible daytime in the Chicago area, then they'd be the only Detroit area signal audible here other than WJR.  (Although CKLW might also make that list for someone with a really good radio).

Anyway....a quickie question for you as the "tower guy"....

In my post the other day, I mentioned that I've driven by their array many times and that the CFCO sticks are clearly visible from the 401 freeway....a couple of miles away.  As I said, the towers are tall.  Then after my post, I was actually thinking of posting again specifically to ask you if you knew anything about these....are they quarter wave, half wave or whatever.  I'm not particularly knowledgeable about a.m. radio tower heights and the physics involved.

[Scott Fybush]

If the data reported to the FCC is accurate (and that's not always a given with Canadian stations), CFCO's towers aren't especially high - four of them are 76 degrees and a fifth is 85 degrees, just short of a quarter-wavelength.

But that's hardly unusual for a station at 630 on the dial, where a full wavelength is about 475 meters. A quarter-wave tower on 630 would be just under 400 feet tall.

[Schroedingers Cat]

Before WBBM was IBOC, I heard WSGW 790 Saginaw in the daytime near Union Grove, WI.  And people along Lake Shore Drive have reported places where WBBM was nulled and WSGW reinforced by tall buildings, at least before IBOC.  It seems like CHYR 710 could have been heard before they moved to FM.  Someone here reported that WCAR 1130 was heard days in Chicago before WISN moved to 1130.  I seem to remember CKLW 800 coming in a little in the daytime.  WKAR 870 East Lansing also came in near Chicago.

[radioman148]

Before WBBM was IBOC, I heard WSGW 790 Saginaw in the daytime near Union Grove, WI.  And people along Lake Shore Drive have reported places where WBBM was nulled and WSGW reinforced by tall buildings, at least before IBOC.  It seems like CHYR 710 could have been heard before they moved to FM.  Someone here reported that WCAR 1130 was heard days in Chicago before WISN moved to 1130.  I seem to remember CKLW 800 coming in a little in the daytime.  WKAR 870 East Lansing also came in near Chicago.

You are right about WCAR. I used to hear it in the Chicago area during the day before WISN moved to 1130. Also heard CKLW during the day & still hear East Lansing's 870 in the daytime.

[Icangelp]

Before WBBM was IBOC, I heard WSGW 790 Saginaw in the daytime near Union Grove, WI.  And people along Lake Shore Drive have reported places where WBBM was nulled and WSGW reinforced by tall buildings, at least before IBOC.  It seems like CHYR 710 could have been heard before they moved to FM.  Someone here reported that WCAR 1130 was heard days in Chicago before WISN moved to 1130.  I seem to remember CKLW 800 coming in a little in the daytime.  WKAR 870 East Lansing also came in near Chicago.

S C. Was CHYR the station that, at one time, operated on separate frequencies for day and night?