KGO, KKSF, KDFC

[DavidKaye]

I hear tell that Newstalk 910 KKSF is actually getting more in 25 to 54 than KGO is.  I hope to have confirmation of this in the next few days.  One thing is certain, KKSF keeps gaining share every month.  KGO is in a holding pattern. 

The two KDFC stations, KDFC Angwin 89.9 and KOSC 90.3 (the former KUSF) together are pulling a 1.7, which is an interesting turn of events because with the inability to get into the southern part of the Bay Area, the combined pull is a bit more than the original full-power KDFC 102.1 got.  I expect that with the addition of 104.9, KDFC will go over 2.0. 

I find this fascinating because KDFC is not being programmed as pop classical as it was during the Brown, Bonneville, and Entercom days.  It's being programmed with a much broader playlist, sometimes approaching the fringes of what is considered classical music.  And what's more, they devote some hours to what most consider the death knell in classical programming: opera. 

So, the people of the Bay Area did like classical after all.  (Well, it shouldn't be such a shocker given the long history of both symphonic music and opera in the SF Bay Area, along with rebel groups such as Classical Revolution, the classical pick-up band that plays in cafes around town.) 

[DavidEduardo]

I hear tell that Newstalk 910 KKSF is actually getting more in 25 to 54 than KGO is.  I hope to have confirmation of this in the next few days.  One thing is certain, KKSF keeps gaining share every month.  KGO is in a holding pattern. 

KKSF does not beat KGO in 25-54... but both are outside the top 25 stations there.  KKSF has been flat the last 3 books while KGO is off by about 40%.

[DavidKaye]

KKSF does not beat KGO in 25-54... but both are outside the top 25 stations there.  KKSF has been flat the last 3 books while KGO is off by about 40%.

Personally, I figured that both stations would settle down after a few months.  I don't know what KKSF can do with what are apparently severe budget restraints.  It couldn't hurt them to spend a few dollars on promotion.  Just the other day I spoke with someone who had no idea that Gil Gross and Len Tillem had migrated 100kHz to the south. 

[recto101]

I like the 89.9FM edition of KDFC they have a better playlist than their 102.1 edition. I remember in the 102.1 edition the playlist was more focused on film scores and chamber music. I remember on 102.1 KDFC it was always focused on Star wars theme during the morning drive.

[dsearls]

KDFC is now also in the South Bay on 104.9 from a 6kw transmitter in the foothills on the east side of San Jose. It's also on 90.3 with a highly directional 16.5-watt translator on the north slope of Mt. Umhunum, aimed at Los Gatos and Saratoga. I believe the latter used to carry KUSP from Santa Cruz.

Given KDFC's resourcefulness in moving its flagship transmitter from USF in San Francisco to Mt. Beacon in Marin (with vastly improved coverage), I'll bet they do the same with 104.9, which is currently below average terrain. That station is also licensed to Sunnyvale, from which it is currently quite a distance.

Nice set of coverage maps here: http://www.kdfc.com/pages/9124176.php#KXSC

[DaveBayArea]

Given KDFC's resourcefulness in moving its flagship transmitter from USF in San Francisco to Mt. Beacon in Marin (with vastly improved coverage), I'll bet they do the same with 104.9, which is currently below average terrain. That station is also licensed to Sunnyvale, from which it is currently quite a distance.

What would be great is if they could move it back to that hill above Niles in Fremont, where it was originally.  I remember they moved to the South so the signal would not overlap a Clear Channel's San Francisco station, and CC could buy the frequency.  The old location was drastically short-spaced, so I'm sure it can't be moved back.  Even where it is, the coverage isn't bad in the South Bay.  It's just that the terrain is way high to the east, hence the low HAAT.

Dave B.

[weav]

Hmm, here's an article that seems to bear directly on the KGO / demographics issue.

http://www.radio-info.com/business/sales-marketing/youth-anasia-the-killer-of-news-newstalk-stations

Maybe the 45+ mode in the demos is just an opportunity if one knows how to exploit it...

[recto101]

Hmm, here's an article that seems to bear directly on the KGO / demographics issue.

http://www.radio-info.com/business/sales-marketing/youth-anasia-the-killer-of-news-newstalk-stations

Maybe the 45+ mode in the demos is just an opportunity if one knows how to exploit it...

The only way that News/Talk format like old KGO can improve is that they take over any low rated FM station in SFO and move the signal there. I do know this Monty and Copeland have good talk shows and they are hanging on to the News/Talk Format. I'm not sure who they attract at this time I do know that these hosts are supposed to attract younger audiences on the weekend.

[DavidKaye]

Hmm, here's an article that seems to bear directly on the KGO / demographics issue.

http://www.radio-info.com/business/sales-marketing/youth-anasia-the-killer-of-news-newstalk-stations

Maybe the 45+ mode in the demos is just an opportunity if one knows how to exploit it...

Well, the customer I'm intending to reach is in exactly that demo.  So, the cat has escaped the bag: I'm looking into advertising on talk and news/talk, the good, the bad, and the ugly.  It's worked for C Crane radios and for New Pane windows and for Armstrong Paint.  I think my problem is that my per-customer ticket price may not be high enough to make radio advertising work for me.  New Pane gets $5 to 8,000 typically.  C Crane gets about $150 BUT they ring up lots of later sales with their incessant catalogs. Armstrong I don't think handles any paint job less than $5k.  And I'm doing tech at $100 an hour. 

I spoke with Mike at New Pane a couple years ago and he told me that Bill Wattenburg had suggested he advertise on KGO. He was skeptical at first since the yellow pages did well for him, but the KGO ads created whole new markets for him, especially with his regional expansion. 

People are out there in radio land and they have money. 

Now, as for how to "youth down" a talkradio station, I believe the Powers That Be have it all wrong.  Talkradio as WE know it is a host, maybe a guest, and the ubiquitous "Bob from Moraga", the ill-informed lout who hasn't been out of his house since the Vietnam war.  That was "back-fence" radio where people exchanged ill-informed opinions with each other because, well, radio was all they had. 

Today, there the Internet is full of places to gather ill-informed opinions.  There is no need for ill-informed talkradio callers.  This is why I believe NPR stations are doing so well.  They're stuffed with experts who talk on issues, and those programs that do have callers tend to have very well-informed callers. 

I think today's young'uns want to hear well-informed talk, not ill-informed talk.  If they want the back fence, they have Facebook. 

[TomJF]

Talkradio as WE know it is a host, maybe a guest, and the ubiquitous "Bob from Moraga", the ill-informed lout who hasn't been out of his house since the Vietnam war. 

As someone from Moraga, I take strenuous exception to that characterization. Most of us are pretty well informed, and I was out of my house just this afternoon.