Small Town Business -- Las Vegas

[Jay_F]

> I am coming to your city next week to settle in,I have spent
> the last
> 35 years of my career in Dallas/Ft.Worth and I am a bit
> disturbed that
> the statement"I love it when people want top 5 market
> formats in market
> 34". It is my opinion that it ain't the format,its the
> attitude.
> Please go for all the top 5 formats you can,cause it
> couldn't hurt.
> If you got the attitude,the results will soon follow..and it
> won't matter
> if its country,talk,news or polka!
> Thanks
> Mikel 1
>
>
>
> > > > P.S. Watch the children, wanna Bees and groupies go
> > after
> > > > this post.
> > >
> > > I love it when people want Top 5 market formats in
> market
> > 34
> > > in revenues.
> >
> > I'll be honest, I've never worked for a news department,
> or
> > a station with a full news department... I have worked in
> a
> > building where our sister station had one (San Francisco).
>
> > One of my instructors at San Francisco state back in the
> day
> > was an anchor for KCBS... News Departments seem like a
> HUGE
> > undertaking, financially, from what I've heard and seen. I
>
> > don't know how a Vegas station could afford one...
> >
> > Just my opinion...
> >
>



LV radio has just about every format you could find in a top 5 market. In fact, we have some formats like oldies that do not exist in NYC and Adult Standards (although on a poor signal) that is rarely found on FM in any sized market.

There are only two formats missing in LV that can be found in major markets. One is Urban AC, many would say the demographics of Las Vegas could not support an Urban AC, they could be right, however the old V108 pulled close to a 2 share with the format on a very poor signal. Also non commercial 88.1 KCEP does feature some Urban AC programming, so the format may be covered already.

As discussed, the other format missing is all news. But this has nothing to do with attitude and everything to do with economics. None of the markets the size of Vegas such as Kansas City, Milwaukee, or San Antonio have all news stations, even the market you are from Dallas-Ft Worth, the fifth largest market in the country,does not have an all news station.

Don't get me wrong though, I am in favor of our current AM talk stations improving their news coverage. It's no accident that Las Vegas has one of the lowest AM shares in the U.S, demographics alone don't explain it, it's the product.

[HEYYOU]

Hey David!!!  Do us all a favor and shut up!  Fact of the matter is, these stations have more money than they know what to do with.... except pay air talent to deliver.   I don't care if it is market 32 or 132 everyone should try and go after a large market sound.

I lived in LA for years and I miss real radio.  I miss drops after a jock talks up a song and hits the post.  I miss funny entertaining phoners.  I miss listening to news and getting not just the anchor talking about the story but a reporter on site as well.  This market is hideous.  There are so many broadcasters here who have no business being on the air whatsoever.  People that have just grown with the market.  This is radio not a bank.

Memo's are hitting talent boxes all over this market telling the jocks to shut up and not be entertaining.  What is the point then of having jocks?  Did you know that clown Mike O'Brian had the balls to put a memo in the jocks boxes that he is declaring Star a "Schtick Free Zone"?  What the hell does he know?  Here is a guy with no PD experience at all landing in market 32 on his first gig. What is that all about?  He has run that station so far into the ground it is ridiculous.  Here is a guy for the poster of Vegas talentless hacks.  Has been here since the 80's, sucks, not funny, not ground breaking, goofy looking, and totally totally jealous of up and coming jocks.

Yet you listen to Mike and Beth in the morning and you hear him swing and miss all the time at being funny.  Sounds to me he doesn't want anyone doing anything funny or entertaining so he can have nothing to compare his lame show to.  O'Brian your day is coming and I can't wait til you fall because there I will be.

Last thought PD's wake up.  Leave your jocks alone and do what you are a paid to do.  Be a bridge between sales and programming.  If you have a jock on during a day part, chances are they are there for a reason.  Don't tell them how to talk, act or be anything other than themselves.  If ratings slip... let them go.  Let the jock determine his or her future and keep your screwed up philosophy to yourself.

[VegasJack]

Well said!

You Vegas boys need to talk up those intro's!

Drop in those drops!



> Hey David!!!  Do us all a favor and shut up!  Fact of the
> matter is, these stations have more money than they know
> what to do with.... except pay air talent to deliver.   I
> don't care if it is market 32 or 132 everyone should try and
> go after a large market sound.
>
> I lived in LA for years and I miss real radio.  I miss drops
> after a jock talks up a song and hits the post.  I miss
> funny entertaining phoners.  I miss listening to news and
> getting not just the anchor talking about the story but a
> reporter on site as well.  This market is hideous.  There
> are so many broadcasters here who have no business being on
> the air whatsoever.  People that have just grown with the
> market.  This is radio not a bank.
>
> Memo's are hitting talent boxes all over this market telling
> the jocks to shut up and not be entertaining.  What is the
> point then of having jocks?  Did you know that clown Mike
> O'Brian had the balls to put a memo in the jocks boxes that
> he is declaring Star a "Schtick Free Zone"?  What the hell
> does he know?  Here is a guy with no PD experience at all
> landing in market 32 on his first gig. What is that all
> about?  He has run that station so far into the ground it is
> ridiculous.  Here is a guy for the poster of Vegas
> talentless hacks.  Has been here since the 80's, sucks, not
> funny, not ground breaking, goofy looking, and totally
> totally jealous of up and coming jocks.
>
> Yet you listen to Mike and Beth in the morning and you hear
> him swing and miss all the time at being funny.  Sounds to
> me he doesn't want anyone doing anything funny or
> entertaining so he can have nothing to compare his lame show
> to.  O'Brian your day is coming and I can't wait til you
> fall because there I will be.
>
> Last thought PD's wake up.  Leave your jocks alone and do
> what you are a paid to do.  Be a bridge between sales and
> programming.  If you have a jock on during a day part,
> chances are they are there for a reason.  Don't tell them
> how to talk, act or be anything other than themselves.  If
> ratings slip... let them go.  Let the jock determine his or
> her future and keep your screwed up philosophy to yourself.
>

[HEYYOU]

VegasJack do me a favor and talk to me in about 6 months when your fad format wears out!

> Well said!
>
> You Vegas boys need to talk up those intro's!
>
> Drop in those drops!

[DavidEduardo]

> Hey David!!!  Do us all a favor and shut up!  

How polite. When you hear something you disagree with, do you always insult the other person?

> Fact of the
> matter is, these stations have more money than they know
> what to do with.... except pay air talent to deliver.

Please define "these stations."  That is pretty vague. Stations in Las Vegas bill anywhere from a few hundred thousand a year to around $8 million, with the average in the $3 million range.

A station's abilility to pay salaries is dependent on a variety of things. First, the total revenue in the market. If you know that a top 5 station will bill between $4 and $7 million, you do not do a format that costs more than that to run. Second, there is lots of overhead besides air talent and programming salaries. The first roughly 30% of billing goes to sales expense, so you have to scale all billing figures to determine what is left over. Third, not all formats have equal advertiser appeal... the recent switch of KJUL points that out. And, finally, the total dollars in the market vs. population determine to a great extent what kind of rate range there will be. Las Vegas is big enough so a lot of buys are based on pure cost per point, and you either sell for the agency goal or you pass on the business.

>   I
> don't care if it is market 32 or 132 everyone should try and
> go after a large market sound.

You get no argument there. But one has to do this within the confines of the economic reality of the market. LA has rougly $12 million available for every share in 25-54, the buying demos. Las Vegas has less than $1.1 million for every share. This revenue potential determines what you can afford to pay, fromt he manager on down.

> I lived in LA for years and I miss real radio.  I miss drops
> after a jock talks up a song and hits the post.  I miss
> funny entertaining phoners.  I miss listening to news and
> getting not just the anchor talking about the story but a
> reporter on site as well.  This market is hideous.  There
> are so many broadcasters here who have no business being on
> the air whatsoever.  People that have just grown with the
> market.  This is radio not a bank.

But have you considered the cost of one of the LA all news stations is about $15 to $18 million a year? Even scaled, you understand why nearly no market outside the top 10 has a news station. And Las Vegas, demographically, is not a fertile field for some kinds of formats.
>
> Last thought PD's wake up.  Leave your jocks alone and do
> what you are a paid to do.  Be a bridge between sales and
> programming.

That is not what a PD is for. A PD is there principally to safeguard the license, train and supervise talent, select and program music and interface with promotions and sales.

>  If you have a jock on during a day part,
> chances are they are there for a reason.  Don't tell them
> how to talk, act or be anything other than themselves.  If
> ratings slip... let them go.  Let the jock determine his or
> her future and keep your screwed up philosophy to yourself.

PDs are, in most instances, there to enhance stationality... the personality (or purposeful lack of same) of the station. Most stations do not thrive on having talent making formatic and content decisions. Controlled spontaneity and improvisation within a framework has always driven most successful stations.
>

[Slurpee]

I predict that by summer there will in fact be a real news/talk station in Las Vegas.  I can't imagine there being a full time "news" station here.  It would be too costly, too small a town even though its market 32.  How can you justify having that huge staff and payroll when the only news would be oh, say the dust control report.  

A KFI style station would work perfectly in Las Vegas.  And don't tell me KXNT already has that covered.  KXNT is horrible....  


On other notes:

HEYYOU:  Were you and Mike Obrien lovers at one time?  You seem to have alot of anger directed at him.  

DAVID:  Jamie Osbourne does program the only english speaking rock station that serves Puerto Rico.  You statement that there are no english stations in Puerto Rico is incorrect.

[Jay_F]

> A KFI style station would work perfectly in Las Vegas.  And
> don't tell me KXNT already has that covered.  KXNT is
> horrible....


The best chance we have of a KFI style station coming to Vegas is if somebody buys KDWN. There was some talk about them being up for sale after the owner died, but I haven't heard anything recently. Does anybody even know where they are moving to after they get kicked out of the Plaza?

There are several companies I can think of that could wake the sleeping giant of 720 AM. Of course Clear Channel owns many news/talk stations (including KFI) and could steal any Premere shows from KXNT. Just losing Rush alone would be a huge blow to KXNT. I thnk that CC could convert KDWN from the station in the 1s it is today to one of the top 3 rated stations in the market.

How about Citadel? They have done a good job of keeping KKOH a solid #1 in Reno. Now with the ABC sale they will have several excellent major market news-talk stations in their roster. What's ironic is that Citadel is based out of Las Vegas, yet they don't own any stations here. I'm not sure if they would be interested in a stand alone AM or not, but they have the potential to turn KDWN into the powerhouse it was meant to be.

[scmidlapp]

> I'll be honest, I've never worked for a news department, or
> a station with a full news department... I have worked in a
> building where our sister station had one (San Francisco).
> One of my instructors at San Francisco state back in the day
> was an anchor for KCBS... News Departments seem like a HUGE
> undertaking, financially,
>

I'll be honest---I work in market size #65 and, up until last year, we had a full-time full-service news department with in-studio anchors and field reporters.  The revenue supported it, but it was the corporate bean counters  who cut the corners to maximize profits.  Out crosstown competition still has all their personnel.  They are a huge undertaking, but if the market supports it----
Also, to respond to an earlier post in this thread---I used to work at KLUC with Mike O'Brien and he was a nice guy-----what happened?

[lfuss]

> I have had a highly successful career in NY, LA, DC & Phx
> and just found this site "by accident".  I have chosen to
> "retire" in the Vegas area.....What strikes me is that for a
> city that is growing...that becomes more relevant every
> day...the media -- both TV AND radio is simply deplorable.

I said the same thing when I "retired" here over two years ago and was promptly attacked on this board.  But the truth is, Vegas radio sucks.  And it's only gotten worse, although I notice that Tom-what's-his-name with the perputually raspy sore-throat is gone from KMXB.  That's a small improvement.

LF