My evaluation of Binghamton radio..

[Justin Case]

> > > You must not have been right in Binghamton if KGB's
> signal
> >
> > > was weak..
> > >
> > He was probably in that fantasy-land of "Greater
> Binghamton"
> > which depending on how the Binghamton Press wants to
> define
> > it today could equal anywhere from Hop Bottom to Vermont!
> >
>
> Well, I was at the corner of State and Court. How's that for
> Downtown Binghamton!? In any event, it really doesn't
> matter. I Like KGB.
>

My 2000 Malibu use to lose KGB on Exchange Street in the shadows of the Library and Security Mutual, on Water Street vallied in there by Boscov's and around the concrete of the Arena and in the shadow of Gov't Plaza (but then again I lose XM there too)...  The new car I bought last month with my pimped stereo gets it crystal clear anywhere in the "Greater Binghamton."

BTW - I like that term, god knows we aren't the triple cities anymore, Southern Tier seems so vague when half the Southern Tier isn't really included and everyone 8 miles away who depends on Binghamton in the Nothern Tier of PA is excluded and then Twin Tiers is already used west of us.  Broome County doesn't again include PA or parts of Tioga, Chenango or Delaware...  Greater means of the wider sample or area...  So Greater Binghamton would mean the city and all of its associated surroundings... which is what we'd be refering too.  

*shrug* Pesimists just hate the idea of associating "Great" with anything they don't like.

[upperleftcorner]

> BTW - I like that term, god knows we aren't the triple
> cities anymore, Southern Tier seems so vague when half the
> Southern Tier isn't really included and everyone 8 miles
> away who depends on Binghamton in the Nothern Tier of PA is
> excluded and then Twin Tiers is already used west of us.
> Broome County doesn't again include PA or parts of Tioga,
> Chenango or Delaware...  Greater means of the wider sample
> or area...  So Greater Binghamton would mean the city and
> all of its associated surroundings... which is what we'd be
> refering too.  

Funny thing is Binghamton is the incredible shrinking city.  JC, Vestal, and Endicott are all growing, and with the exception of Vestal, both JC and Endicott have surpassed Binghamton in population.  I don't know what to call this area anymore

[interndj]

>>
> Funny thing is Binghamton is the incredible shrinking city.
> JC, Vestal, and Endicott are all growing, and with the
> exception of Vestal, both JC and Endicott have surpassed
> Binghamton in population.  I don't know what to call this
> area anymore
>

I agree. I drive into Vestal, and holy sh**! It's pretty big, compared to 10-15 years ago. Binghamton missed the boat on many things. Have you really been to downtown recently and looked around? The ONLY "business" holding up is Boscovs, and Binghamton had to recently "beg" Boscovs into staying. They were going to leave!

Too bad.

[upperleftcorner]

> I agree. I drive into Vestal, and holy sh**! It's pretty
> big, compared to 10-15 years ago. Binghamton missed the boat
> on many things. Have you really been to downtown recently
> and looked around? The ONLY "business" holding up is
> Boscovs, and Binghamton had to recently "beg" Boscovs into
> staying. They were going to leave!
>
> Too bad.
>

I hate to see this stuff.  I don't know whether to blame malls, the big box retailers, or someone else for this sorta stuff.  Every city faces it.  The incentives to build businesses in the suburban areas closer to where people live is just to friendly to business in general.  Guess we all should go to Boscovs today and make a token purchase!

When my great-grandmother was born in Binghamton in 1892, it was a sprawling, very vital city.  You wouldn't know to look at it today

At least radio is still good here.

[interndj]

> > I agree. I drive into Vestal, and holy sh**! It's pretty
> > big, compared to 10-15 years ago. Binghamton missed the
> boat
> > on many things. Have you really been to downtown recently
> > and looked around? The ONLY "business" holding up is
> > Boscovs, and Binghamton had to recently "beg" Boscovs into
>
> > staying. They were going to leave!
> >
> > Too bad.
> >
>
> I hate to see this stuff.  I don't know whether to blame
> malls, the big box retailers, or someone else for this sorta
> stuff.  Every city faces it.  The incentives to build
> businesses in the suburban areas closer to where people live
> is just to friendly to business in general.  Guess we all
> should go to Boscovs today and make a token purchase!
>
> When my great-grandmother was born in Binghamton in 1892, it
> was a sprawling, very vital city.  You wouldn't know to look
> at it today
>
> At least radio is still good here.
>

I agree 100%.

[Justin Case]

> Funny thing is Binghamton is the incredible shrinking city.
> JC, Vestal, and Endicott are all growing, and with the
> exception of Vestal, both JC and Endicott have surpassed
> Binghamton in population.  I don't know what to call this
> area anymore
>

not exactly...  populations and sprawling strip malls are quite a different thing... All three of the *cough* triple cities have shrunk...

(According to the US Census rounded to the nearest hundred)

City/Village - 2004 Population estimate (actual in 2000) ['98 estimate]
Binghamton - 46,000 (47,500) [45,500]
Endicott - 12,800 (13,500) [12,700]
Johnson City - 15,000 (15,500) [14,900]

TOWNS - 2004 Population estimate (actual in 2000) ['98 estimate]
Union - 55,000 (56,000) [54,000] (includes villages of JC & Endicott)
Vestal - 27,000 (26,500) [26,000]

COUTNIES - 2004 Population estimate(actual in 2000)['98 estimate]
Broome County - 197,700 (200,500) [196,400]
Tioga County - 51,500 (51,800) [51,500]

Granted the 2004 Census estimate numbers are all still higher than their estimates for 1998 that were proved wrong in the actual 2000 census count.  The decrease in numbers is leveling off compared to the 70's -90's for the city where it lost some 36,000 residents (mostly to the burbs)... As minority populations increase, the census admits to having significantly larger margins of errors in its estimates, so we won't really know again til 2010 and who knows what will happen in the next five years.

Over the past decade we've seen tremendous development growth along the Parkway and Upper Front Street, but that growth hasn't resulted in any major population swings.  Town of Union still has the most people, while the City of Binghamton remains the center of population density (less than a 1/4 of the land size of Union) and is within itself tales of different neighborhoods, some are growing slightly (South & East sides), while others are just a fraction of what they use to be (Downtown, First Ward and Northside come to mind).

[interndj]

> > Funny thing is Binghamton is the incredible shrinking
> city.
> > JC, Vestal, and Endicott are all growing, and with the
> > exception of Vestal, both JC and Endicott have surpassed
> > Binghamton in population.  I don't know what to call this
> > area anymore
> >
>
> not exactly...  populations and sprawling strip malls are
> quite a different thing... All three of the *cough* triple
> cities have shrunk...
>
> (According to the US Census rounded to the nearest hundred)
>
> City/Village - 2004 Population estimate (actual in 2000)
> ['98 estimate]
> Binghamton - 46,000 (47,500) [45,500]
> Endicott - 12,800 (13,500) [12,700]
> Johnson City - 15,000 (15,500) [14,900]
>
> TOWNS - 2004 Population estimate (actual in 2000) ['98
> estimate]
> Union - 55,000 (56,000) [54,000] (includes villages of JC &
> Endicott)
> Vestal - 27,000 (26,500) [26,000]
>
> COUTNIES - 2004 Population estimate(actual in 2000)['98
> estimate]
> Broome County - 197,700 (200,500) [196,400]
> Tioga County - 51,500 (51,800) [51,500]
>
> Granted the 2004 Census estimate numbers are all still
> higher than their estimates for 1998 that were proved wrong
> in the actual 2000 census count.  The decrease in numbers is
> leveling off compared to the 70's -90's for the city where
> it lost some 36,000 residents (mostly to the burbs)... As
> minority populations increase, the census admits to having
> significantly larger margins of errors in its estimates, so
> we won't really know again til 2010 and who knows what will
> happen in the next five years.
>
> Over the past decade we've seen tremendous development
> growth along the Parkway and Upper Front Street, but that
> growth hasn't resulted in any major population swings.  Town
> of Union still has the most people, while the City of
> Binghamton remains the center of population density (less
> than a 1/4 of the land size of Union) and is within itself
> tales of different neighborhoods, some are growing slightly
> (South & East sides), while others are just a fraction of
> what they use to be (Downtown, First Ward and Northside come
> to mind).
>

Dude, no offense, but you spent WAYYYY too much time finding out the info..

[DowntownHazleton]

> > > > You must not have been right in Binghamton if KGB's
> > signal
> > >
> > > > was weak..
> > > >
> > > He was probably in that fantasy-land of "Greater
> > Binghamton"
> > > which depending on how the Binghamton Press wants to
> > define
> > > it today could equal anywhere from Hop Bottom to
> Vermont!
> > >
> >
> > Well, I was at the corner of State and Court. How's that
> for
> > Downtown Binghamton!? In any event, it really doesn't
> > matter. I Like KGB.
> >
>
> My 2000 Malibu use to lose KGB on Exchange Street in the
> shadows of the Library and Security Mutual, on Water Street
> vallied in there by Boscov's and around the concrete of the
> Arena and in the shadow of Gov't Plaza (but then again I
> lose XM there too)...  The new car I bought last month with
> my pimped stereo gets it crystal clear anywhere in the
> "Greater Binghamton."
>
> BTW - I like that term, god knows we aren't the triple
> cities anymore, Southern Tier seems so vague when half the
> Southern Tier isn't really included and everyone 8 miles
> away who depends on Binghamton in the Nothern Tier of PA is
> excluded and then Twin Tiers is already used west of us.
> Broome County doesn't again include PA or parts of Tioga,
> Chenango or Delaware...  Greater means of the wider sample
> or area...  So Greater Binghamton would mean the city and
> all of its associated surroundings... which is what we'd be
> refering too.  
>
> *shrug* Pesimists just hate the idea of associating "Great"
> with anything they don't like.
>
Since I made the original comment about "Greater Binghamton", I'd like you to know that it's not pessimism that has anything to do about it. I lived most of my life in Endicott, and spent most of my radio career in and around Binghamton. I am very much in favor of the entire area doing better than it has lately. My problem with the "Greater Binghamton" label is this..it lumps multiple areas with different histories, different backgrounds and different tastes into one big faceless group. How many people who write on this board cry foul about how Citadel, Clear Channel or Cumulus have melted every radio station in a certain area into one big, homogenized cluster? And that's what the label "Greater Binghamton" does to this area. And, as mentioned in my earlier post, The Binghamton Press applies the "Greater Binghamton" name to anything that fits them in a story they are writing. So "Greater Binghamton" can wind up being anything from Hop Bottom to Vermont in their wisdom. I'm done now.

[Justin Case]

> Dude, no offense, but you spent WAYYYY too much time finding
> out the info..

Not really...  I have the information in a census print out in a binder on my desk, I just flipped open to one page and dropped some numbers...  I think its important to know truly whats going on when you're in charge of relating to the public and promoting the station.  Plus I'm a wealth of useless info anyway!  lol

Anyone see todays Local & State section of the paper?  It just cements my comments yesterday about minorities and sample errors in the census.  As it says an increase in immigrant births in our area is beginning to counter the decline of hometown births.  Do we really know how many immigrants are here and thats just a segment of an ever growing minority population, especially the asian population, I mean there are a couple of asian grocery stores now.

The ethnicities impacting are differnt, but our economy and population trend is much like just around the turn of the previous century if you go back in local history... at the time the Scranton and Syracuse areas were making fun of Binghamton as the sleepy "Parlor City."  A place where residents had nothing to do and no opportunities, so they'd just sit in their parlors moping.  The logging and Cigar industry were fading fast but as we know shortly after, a huge immagration boom and the many that came with it would start companies that would take off including the company now known as whirlpool which started here and the shoe industry which took advantage of the immigrant boom to take foot (pun intended) and exploded leading to 60 years of consistant growth with EJ, then Link and IBM amongst others.

Our major industries are again in decline and opportunity is again limited, now is the kind of time where the next set of leaders can come in cheap and take us on a new path and create new types of business and opportunity.  I'm obviously trying to be optomistic and would rather see our positives than our negatives, but history does tend to repeat itself.

Edited by JustinCase on 07/08/05 08:20 PM.

[Justin Case]

> Since I made the original comment about "Greater
> Binghamton", I'd like you to know that it's not pessimism
> that has anything to do about it. I lived most of my life in
> Endicott, and spent most of my radio career in and around
> Binghamton. I am very much in favor of the entire area doing
> better than it has lately. My problem with the "Greater
> Binghamton" label is this..it lumps multiple areas with
> different histories, different backgrounds and different
> tastes into one big faceless group. How many people who
> write on this board cry foul about how Citadel, Clear
> Channel or Cumulus have melted every radio station in a
> certain area into one big, homogenized cluster? And that's
> what the label "Greater Binghamton" does to this area. And,
> as mentioned in my earlier post, The Binghamton Press
> applies the "Greater Binghamton" name to anything that fits
> them in a story they are writing. So "Greater Binghamton"
> can wind up being anything from Hop Bottom to Vermont in
> their wisdom. I'm done now.
>

I've been part of several discussions and on a couple panels investigating consolodation and I'm always suprised by some reactions and most of them come from Western Broome.  Affraid of their communities disappearing or losing their identity and even fear of devalued property if associated with other communities.  I guess I don't understand it because I've spent the majority of my 28 years in Binghamton and Chenango Forks and most of the surrounding communities and neighborhoods in this part of the county (many in the towns of Binghamton, Conklin, Kirkwood, Dickinson and Chenango) actually have Binghamton mailing addresses and zip codes despite actually living in other hamlets or villages and yet they still maintain their individual schools, history and identity.  

I think a lot of that Western Broome attitude is what I call the IBM syndrome, mentality the result of 40 years of so many IBM workers injecting in those communities their company's arrogance and full expectation, a true feeling of more importance.  Well the realization is thats not maintainable, everything has ups and downs and IBM has slashed its workforce, perks, and benefits to be competitive.  EVERYONE & EVERYTHING is expendable and thats hard for many who had everything given to them for so long to accept.  

As the village of Endicott is learning quickly, without IBM it can't afford itself.  Its about time the people realize too we need to join together to help eachother or our quality of life will just continue to erode.  Just because we work together for promotion (Greater Binghamton), convenince (centralized dispatching) or saving money (shared services/buying power), doesn't mean our neighbors will change or your history will be lost...  Greater Binghamton is nothing more than a reference to our region as a whole, not our individual neighborhoods.  

We've all been away on vacation and had someone ask where we were from and we've said for example "Chenango Forks, NY" and gotten the "oh, whereabouts is that" and we follow it up with "near Binghamton" and the person goes oh yeah upstate.  Its just a better known reference point and a much easier sell to potential visitors, residents and/or businesses.  

And when we in the media use it to say, "the Lockeheed Martin contract and expansion in Owego will be a positive impact on Greater Binghamton" we're letting the public know both the obvious that its going to be big for Owego, but that being part of our area, many of them will buy houses or spend money in Vestal, Union or Binghamton, and that impacts us all, and the "ALL" is Greater Binghamton... and I look at that as the area covered by our phone books or listening/viewing area which is usually all of Broome and parts of Chenango, Cortland, Delaware, Susquehanna and Tioga Counties...  I have no idea about your constant references to Vermont however.

Edited by JustinCase on 07/08/05 11:20 PM.