"HD AM in NJ/NY ?"

[DavidEduardo]

I was referring to FM HD as the perfectly good horse, and the AM HD as the dead horse.

Have you actually listened to AM HD? It makes even talk based programming sound better, with increased presence and a real lack of the AM "muffling" that turns off nearly everyone under 45 or 50.

AM analog is compromised by many decades of poor stewardship of the FCC and newer electronics' blatant noise generation.

And there is little liklihood that Humpty Dumpty can be put together again. And since there is so little listener interest, it does not appeal to anyone in Washington who could do something.

I know the broadcasters have little-to-no interest in serving outside their market.

And this has been true for decades... but unlike the thinking here that this is somehow related to what station owners want, it is related to the fact that with 14,000 radio stations, very few Americans need outside service, plus the fact that advertisers do not buy coverage any more... they buy markets and ingnore out of market signals as they know that it complicates ad buys and brings little national benefit to campaigns.

Listeners have an interest in radio's content, and particularly sports fans have complained about the 700/720 issue.

Probably at least 12 of them.
             

If the FCC would like to help AM, getting the pt 15 unintentional radiators (even if only in new manufacture) to comply would be a fine place to start. Fine a few power companies that refuse to maintain distribution equipment.  Ban BPL.

It's too late, and the job of regulating RFI is of little interest today. AM is considered old technology, and only broadcasters themsleves, with things like HD, have any chance. I think that even that is a reach for a grail that is unattainable.

Heck, I could be satisfied if we just stayed where we are, but adding interference ANYWHERE intentionally is insane.

Listening  by people under 40 to AM is almost non-existent. As time goes by, this will creep to 45, 50 and 55 and then there will be zero ad money for AM. Staying the same is impossible. Creating some interference to adjacent channels waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the "usable" groundwave coverage areas of stations affects so few, while the benefits may actually save the viability of the band. That is a pretty good bet.

[StevenNOLA]

I was referring to FM HD as the perfectly good horse, and the AM HD as the dead horse.

Have you actually listened to AM HD? It makes even talk based programming sound better, with increased presence and a real lack of the AM "muffling" that turns off nearly everyone under 45 or 50.

AM analog is compromised by many decades of poor stewardship of the FCC and newer electronics' blatant noise generation.

And there is little liklihood that Humpty Dumpty can be put together again. And since there is so little listener interest, it does not appeal to anyone in Washington who could do something.

I know the broadcasters have little-to-no interest in serving outside their market.

And this has been true for decades... but unlike the thinking here that this is somehow related to what station owners want, it is related to the fact that with 14,000 radio stations, very few Americans need outside service, plus the fact that advertisers do not buy coverage any more... they buy markets and ingnore out of market signals as they know that it complicates ad buys and brings little national benefit to campaigns.

Listeners have an interest in radio's content, and particularly sports fans have complained about the 700/720 issue.

Probably at least 12 of them.
             

If the FCC would like to help AM, getting the pt 15 unintentional radiators (even if only in new manufacture) to comply would be a fine place to start. Fine a few power companies that refuse to maintain distribution equipment.  Ban BPL.

It's too late, and the job of regulating RFI is of little interest today. AM is considered old technology, and only broadcasters themsleves, with things like HD, have any chance. I think that even that is a reach for a grail that is unattainable.

Heck, I could be satisfied if we just stayed where we are, but adding interference ANYWHERE intentionally is insane.

Listening  by people under 40 to AM is almost non-existent. As time goes by, this will creep to 45, 50 and 55 and then there will be zero ad money for AM. Staying the same is impossible. Creating some interference to adjacent channels waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside the "usable" groundwave coverage areas of stations affects so few, while the benefits may actually save the viability of the band. That is a pretty good bet.

David, thanks for a sensible and accurate post on the HD board.  I haven't visited this this thread in a long time due to the misinformation and agenda-pushing opinionated posts by people who don't own an HD radio or have no experience related to HD radio.  I sincerely believe you have made some good points and agree.  Thanks.

[Tom Wells]

Yes, I  have auditioned AM HD, and it sounds worse on voice only than music.  All speakers sound as though they need to clear
their throats.

I am unaccepting of the non-cancellation of the IBOC sidebands, the impossibly critical center-tuning required, and the imposed
high-frequency cut-off, all these ruining my reception of the host analog everywhere WITHIN the defined market.

The muffling of AM analog is a totally manufactured problem.
It's much easier and cheaper to design a proper AM receiver with 10-15 Khz of IF bandwidth.

With such a complacent attitude about degrading standards and purity, it would be small stretch to think you might be accepting about
 loosening other standards.

Shall we legalize prostitution, tax it, and fund schools?
What if the hookers were corporate employees with benefits?

Why don't we relax standards and laws regarding auto traffic?

How about shoplifting? 
How about we just bulldoze small town centers and let people drive to the nearest mega-mall?

I don't see any justification for marginalizing any listeners, or relaxing engineering standards.

There won't be any younger listeners until the content adresses them.

Your scenario is " which shall we eat first, the chicken or the egg?"

If you kill the hen, there are no more eggs.

I suggest that AM HD is Humpty-Dumpty, he's broken, AND we shouldn't bother picking up the pieces.
His sister on the FM, Frumpty Dumpty, is still up on the wall, and she has a proper safety harness, and is not doing foolish  handstands and cartwheels that got her brother in trouble.

Do you not remember when AMs had to run proofs, back when they sounded good?
See how much better the radio sounds since engineers are no longer required?

Being in the business so long, you have completely forgotten that radio was never defined by the FCC as a BUSINESS, but a SERVICE.


This is a classic "office vs real-world" battle, where all the good intentions in the world are not going to make a pig fly.

My beef and axe-to-grind are only directed toward unrealistic engineering expectations.

[700WLW]

David, thanks for a sensible and accurate post on the HD board.  I haven't visited this this thread in a long time due to the misinformation and agenda-pushing opinionated posts by people who don't own an HD radio or have no experience related to HD radio.  I sincerely believe you have made some good points and agree.  Thanks.

The only misinformation going on here, is by IBOC supports, with false claims of IBOC's coverage, audio quality, and exciting HD programming, who almost never back their claims with posted links/articles.

[StevenNOLA]

David, thanks for a sensible and accurate post on the HD board.  I haven't visited this this thread in a long time due to the misinformation and agenda-pushing opinionated posts by people who don't own an HD radio or have no experience related to HD radio.  I sincerely believe you have made some good points and agree.  Thanks.

The only misinformation going on here, is by IBOC supports, with false claims of IBOC's coverage, audio quality, and exciting HD programming, who almost never back their claims with posted links/articles.

First off, you are a menace to intelligent discussion on this board and this is my final address to ANY of your posts.

Secondly, you admit to not owning a HD radio.  As a result, I dismiss all of your claims towards coverage, audio quality, and programming. 

Finally, I own 3 HD radios and have ZERO complaints.  As a result of my personal observations, I have no need to post links to opinionated articles regarding someone else's observations and biased theories.  I have my own and I will stick with them.

GOOD DAY!

[EasyPeazy]

First off, you are a menace to intelligent discussion on this board and this is my final address to ANY of your posts.

Secondly, you admit to not owning a HD radio.  As a result, I dismiss all of your claims towards coverage, audio quality, and programming. 

Finally, I own 3 HD radios and have ZERO complaints.  As a result of my personal observations, I have no need to post links to opinionated articles regarding someone else's observations and biased theories.  I have my own and I will stick with them.

GOOD DAY!

Steven,

You can't let him get to you.  That's what he wants.  Ignoring him is probably a good idea, but don't let him chase you off.  The rest of us enjoy your participation.

The more people who participate in discussions here that have actually used an HD Radio the more transparent this guy will become.

Not that it really matters - he's generally so over the top that he hurts his own credibility without any help from us.

[700WLW]

First off, you are a menace to intelligent discussion on this board and this is my final address to ANY of your posts.

Secondly, you admit to not owning a HD radio.  As a result, I dismiss all of your claims towards coverage, audio quality, and programming. 

Finally, I own 3 HD radios and have ZERO complaints.  As a result of my personal observations, I have no need to post links to opinionated articles regarding someone else's observations and biased theories.  I have my own and I will stick with them.

GOOD DAY!

Steven,

You can't let him get to you.  That's what he wants.  Ignoring him is probably a good idea, but don't let him chase you off.  The rest of us enjoy your participation.

The more people who participate in discussions here that have actually used an HD Radio the more transparent this guy will become.

Not that it really matters - he's generally so over the top that he hurts his own credibility without any help from us.

Actually, I tried HD Radio in an electonics store, but could get only two stations - the stations were boring and sounded exactly like analog radio, so no need to waste $200 on an HD radio, when I could listen free on the Internet, with AOL Radio. The analog boom-boxes were booming-away, getting many stations.  All of the table-top, and the one HD Radio, were all replaced by other Christmas merchandise. Here's my glorious review on Circuit City, with only 400+ votes, over four months:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Customer-reviews-for-Boston-Acoustics-Recepter-Radio-HD/sem/rpsm/oid/160671/pagen/1/helpfulAction/1/helpfulOid/100456882/sortby/1/order/D/rpem/ccd/productDetailReview.do#tabs

Pretty cool - I made sure, that I was first-in-line to bash HD Radio (actually, the second review got put there, by mistake, but that is ok) !  Also, I have bashed HD Radio, for most HD Radio products, on Amazon and Radio Shack, too ! All of these, have received such few votes, it probably doesn't make much difference, anyway !  Is that, over-the-top enough for you ? 

You still have to wade through my posts - Have a Good Day !

[EasyPeazy]

Actually, I tried HD Radio in an electonics store, but could get only two stations - the stations were boring and sounded exactly like analog radio, so no need to waste $200 on an HD radio, when I could listen free on the Internet, with AOL Radio. The analog boom-boxes were booming-away, getting many stations.  All of the table-top, and the one HD Radio, were all replaced by other Christmas merchandise. Here's my glorious review on Circuit City, with only 400+ votes, over four months:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Customer-reviews-for-Boston-Acoustics-Recepter-Radio-HD/sem/rpsm/oid/160671/pagen/1/helpfulAction/1/helpfulOid/100456882/sortby/1/order/D/rpem/ccd/productDetailReview.do#tabs

Pretty cool - I made sure, that I was first-in-line to bash HD Radio (actually, the second review got put there, by mistake, but that is ok) !  Also, I have bashed HD Radio, for most HD Radio products, on Amazon and Radio Shack, too !
All of these, have received such few votes, it probably doesn't make much difference, anyway !  Is that, over-the-top enough for you ? 

You still have to wade through my posts - Have a Good Day !

Ya know, I bet if anyone took the time to contact the appropriate people at Circuit City, Amazon and Radio Shack and direct them to this thread, those reviews you're so proud of could disappear.  Hopefully someone who has more time on their hands than me will take the ball and run with it.

It's also good to know that your impressions of HD audio quality were formed in an electronics store with "analog boom-boxes were booming-away."

Personally, I can't make any real judgements about audio quality in that environment and I doubt you can either.

Thanks for once again showing everyone just how flawed your "research" and opinions on HD Radio really are.

[StevenNOLA]

Actually, I tried HD Radio in an electonics store, but could get only two stations - the stations were boring and sounded exactly like analog radio, so no need to waste $200 on an HD radio, when I could listen free on the Internet, with AOL Radio. The analog boom-boxes were booming-away, getting many stations.  All of the table-top, and the one HD Radio, were all replaced by other Christmas merchandise. Here's my glorious review on Circuit City, with only 400+ votes, over four months:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Customer-reviews-for-Boston-Acoustics-Recepter-Radio-HD/sem/rpsm/oid/160671/pagen/1/helpfulAction/1/helpfulOid/100456882/sortby/1/order/D/rpem/ccd/productDetailReview.do#tabs

Pretty cool - I made sure, that I was first-in-line to bash HD Radio (actually, the second review got put there, by mistake, but that is ok) !  Also, I have bashed HD Radio, for most HD Radio products, on Amazon and Radio Shack, too !
All of these, have received such few votes, it probably doesn't make much difference, anyway !  Is that, over-the-top enough for you ? 

You still have to wade through my posts - Have a Good Day !

Ya know, I bet if anyone took the time to contact the appropriate people at Circuit City, Amazon and Radio Shack and direct them to this thread, those reviews you're so proud of could disappear.  Hopefully someone who has more time on their hands than me will take the ball and run with it.

It's also good to know that your impressions of HD audio quality were formed in an electronics store with "analog boom-boxes were booming-away."

Personally, I can't make any real judgements about audio quality in that environment and I doubt you can either.

Thanks for once again showing everyone just how flawed your "research" and opinions on HD Radio really are.

Thanks EasyPeazy.  You are correct in your observations and I will not be run off.  Furthermore, I will not participate in futile pissing matches.  With respect to HD AM, I have experience with a couple.  KPRC-AM in Houston and WOAI-AM in San Antonio.  WOAI is a 50kw and sends out a reliable HD signal as far out as 85-100 miles.  Not many analog FM stations reliably give such a large listening area.  With respect to KPRC-AM, it is 5kw in Houston and HD is reliable out to 45-60 miles (basically covering the entire metro area of the 4th largest city).  To say AM HD is complete failure is incorrect.  Nighttime operation is a different story and may not be a good idea.  I would like to know how they perform in the dense NJ/NY area FROM SOMEONE WHO IS AN OWNER.

Thanks,
Steven

[R.F. Burns]

Actually, I tried HD Radio in an electonics store, but could get only two stations - the stations were boring and sounded exactly like analog radio, so no need to waste $200 on an HD radio, when I could listen free on the Internet, with AOL Radio. The analog boom-boxes were booming-away, getting many stations.  All of the table-top, and the one HD Radio, were all replaced by other Christmas merchandise. Here's my glorious review on Circuit City, with only 400+ votes, over four months:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Customer-reviews-for-Boston-Acoustics-Recepter-Radio-HD/sem/rpsm/oid/160671/pagen/1/helpfulAction/1/helpfulOid/100456882/sortby/1/order/D/rpem/ccd/productDetailReview.do#tabs

Pretty cool - I made sure, that I was first-in-line to bash HD Radio (actually, the second review got put there, by mistake, but that is ok) !  Also, I have bashed HD Radio, for most HD Radio products, on Amazon and Radio Shack, too !
All of these, have received such few votes, it probably doesn't make much difference, anyway !  Is that, over-the-top enough for you ? 

You still have to wade through my posts - Have a Good Day !

Ya know, I bet if anyone took the time to contact the appropriate people at Circuit City, Amazon and Radio Shack and direct them to this thread, those reviews you're so proud of could disappear.  Hopefully someone who has more time on their hands than me will take the ball and run with it.

It's also good to know that your impressions of HD audio quality were formed in an electronics store with "analog boom-boxes were booming-away."

Personally, I can't make any real judgements about audio quality in that environment and I doubt you can either.

Thanks for once again showing everyone just how flawed your "research" and opinions on HD Radio really are.

Thanks EasyPeazy.  You are correct in your observations and I will not be run off.  Furthermore, I will not participate in futile pissing matches.  With respect to HD AM, I have experience with a couple.  KPRC-AM in Houston and WOAI-AM in San Antonio.  WOAI is a 50kw and sends out a reliable HD signal as far out as 85-100 miles.  Not many analog FM stations reliably give such a large listening area.  With respect to KPRC-AM, it is 5kw in Houston and HD is reliable out to 45-60 miles (basically covering the entire metro area of the 4th largest city).  To say AM HD is complete failure is incorrect.  Nighttime operation is a different story and may not be a good idea.  I would like to know how they perform in the dense NJ/NY area FROM SOMEONE WHO IS AN OWNER.

Thanks,
Steven

Poor ground connectivity and the short spacing of stations make the Northeastern US a different ballgame compared with most of the country. 90 miles away you're in another major market and there are probably more 50 K stations on this region than in any other part of the US. out west altought they have 50K stations most are directional west  and so you're not getting hit with erp's of over 300 Kw or greater as we are here. For instance, while I can hear NYC AM stations almost like locals in places like Hartford and Philladelphia, in the NYC metro area the same can not be said for any of the Philadelphia 50 stations or WTIC in Hartford. There is absolutely no part of the FM band without a station, which makes using those low power I-Pod FM transmitters a real challenge to use. I will add though, that one HD station which is over 60 miles from my house (WAWZ) comes in with a solid signal on both the HD 1 & 2 streams. With my Sangean HD tuner I can hear a station which is about 120 miles south east of me (WPUR) even though I have two local first adjacents on either side of it. The signal is weak and most people wouldn't bother but it's very dx-able and consistent. In the final analysis from a business standpoint, as long  as you can cover AM & to a lesser extent PM drive, the rest of the day is of secondary importance. Running IBOC after dark would be important is the audience numbers were there. They really aren't. It's interesting and may attest to my location but while I can hear some stations from the central time zone, where they'd have to turn of their IBOC an hour after our sundown, they cause no interference to any station that I can hear.