"HD AM in NJ/NY ?"

[700WLW]

"HD AM in NJ/NY ?"

"Well, from what I can hear there are only 3 stations left on the air transmitting the IBOC signal on AM in the NY/NJ area..."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/browse_thread/thread/55f5b4e32125fe16/e91b325d32a78159?hl=en#e91b325d32a78159

"RW Opinion: Rethinking AM’s future"

"Only 175 or so AM stations have even licensed AM-HD. For a number of reasons, quite a few have tried it and taken it off the air, or so the anecdotal evidence suggests. (Ibiquity no longer reports in its public summaries whether a station is on the air.)"

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.557.html

HD Radio dead yet on AM ?

[R.F. Burns]

"HD AM in NJ/NY ?"

"Well, from what I can hear there are only 3 stations left on the air transmitting the IBOC signal on AM in the NY/NJ area..."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/browse_thread/thread/55f5b4e32125fe16/e91b325d32a78159?hl=en#e91b325d32a78159

"RW Opinion: Rethinking AM’s future"

"Only 175 or so AM stations have even licensed AM-HD. For a number of reasons, quite a few have tried it and taken it off the air, or so the anecdotal evidence suggests. (Ibiquity no longer reports in its public summaries whether a station is on the air.)"

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.557.html

HD Radio dead yet on AM ?

Theer are four AM IBOC stations in NYC. WFAN, WOR, WABC & WCBS. The WCBS encoder is out for repair but it will be turned back on as soon as its returned.

[wkbam1690]

WCBS, the flagship of the CBS network, can't afford a backup encoder? Why should people plunk down substantial amounts of cash to hear signals that the station doesn't consider important enough to provide them a measure of redundancy?

[R.F. Burns]

WCBS, the flagship of the CBS network, can't afford a backup encoder? Why should people plunk down substantial amounts of cash to hear signals that the station doesn't consider important enough to provide them a measure of redundancy?

Please forgive me but your statement (which I have read elsewhere under a different name is plain silly). Most AM stations do have more than a single transmitter. They don't however have 2 seperate processing chains or back-up antenna systems. Equipment fails all the time. IBOC is a work in progress. What Ibiquity is probably doing is finding out what the cause of the failure was so that hey can prevent it from re-occuring. Because AM IBOC's don't provide for seperate audio feeds and at this time the number of people listening to AM IBOC is relatively small, there is no need to have backup systems. How many times have stations lost their internet feeds and they eventuallly come back. Nobody says a thing, like why don't you have more than  one method of getting your feed on the net. Their IBOC encoder will return as soon as it's repaired. By the way, WABC went months without IBOC when their failed and it returned and has been working flawlessly since.

[Tom Wells]

WCBS, the flagship of the CBS network, can't afford a backup encoder? Why should people plunk down substantial amounts of cash to hear signals that the station doesn't consider important enough to provide them a measure of redundancy?

Please forgive me but your statement (which I have read elsewhere under a different name is plain silly). Most AM stations do have more than a single transmitter. They don't however have 2 seperate processing chains or back-up antenna systems. Equipment fails all the time. IBOC is a work in progress. What Ibiquity is probably doing is finding out what the cause of the failure was so that hey can prevent it from re-occuring. Because AM IBOC's don't provide for seperate audio feeds and at this time the number of people listening to AM IBOC is relatively small, there is no need to have backup systems. How many times have stations lost their internet feeds and they eventuallly come back. Nobody says a thing, like why don't you have more than  one method of getting your feed on the net. Their IBOC encoder will return as soon as it's repaired. By the way, WABC went months without IBOC when their failed and it returned and has been working flawlessly since.

Flawlessly?    Not from my perspective, unless you mean trespassing on 750,760, 780 and 790.
That it's doing fine job of.

It's hard for me to grasp that ibiquity thinks this system doesn't need redundancy.  It's a computer, fer pete's sake!
You'd think they would know computers are trouble-prone, and such an application should have hot-backup switching.

[R.F. Burns]

WCBS, the flagship of the CBS network, can't afford a backup encoder? Why should people plunk down substantial amounts of cash to hear signals that the station doesn't consider important enough to provide them a measure of redundancy?

Please forgive me but your statement (which I have read elsewhere under a different name is plain silly). Most AM stations do have more than a single transmitter. They don't however have 2 seperate processing chains or back-up antenna systems. Equipment fails all the time. IBOC is a work in progress. What Ibiquity is probably doing is finding out what the cause of the failure was so that hey can prevent it from re-occuring. Because AM IBOC's don't provide for seperate audio feeds and at this time the number of people listening to AM IBOC is relatively small, there is no need to have backup systems. How many times have stations lost their internet feeds and they eventuallly come back. Nobody says a thing, like why don't you have more than  one method of getting your feed on the net. Their IBOC encoder will return as soon as it's repaired. By the way, WABC went months without IBOC when their failed and it returned and has been working flawlessly since.

Flawlessly?    Not from my perspective, unless you mean trespassing on 750,760, 780 and 790.
That it's doing fine job of.

It's hard for me to grasp that ibiquity thinks this system doesn't need redundancy.  It's a computer, fer pete's sake!
You'd think they would know computers are trouble-prone, and such an application should have hot-backup switching.

I keep reading this. In my area about 20 miles from the WABC transmitter site, when they were not running IBOC, 750, 760, 780 & 790 were already unlistenable. So what's the problem here? I can hear the low power 690 while WOR and WFAN have their IBOC exciters on, it's spanish and has no listeners in my area. Not because it's Spanish but because under the best of circumstances only a DXer would listen to that signal and only long enough to get an ID. When I said perfect I meant that failures of this type won't occur. The audioo quality on AM IBOC stations has a long way t o go before I would suggest that it's an acceptable replacement even for the 5K analogue audio. As of now there are way too many artifacts in the audio. Let's call this a work in progress. On the other hand the FM has a bright future in my opinion.

[Tom Wells]

I live 20 miles east of 3 50kw AMs 670, 720 and 780, and before HD (with a Collins 390) I was able to listen to other clear channels only 10khz away.  In daytime during winter months.

The state of Indiana is a good example of daytime IBOCs trashing each other.  Indianapolis should be able to get WLW and WGN just fine,
but now the hissing trashes both..

This was WLW, WOR, WABC, WCBS, etc.  Yes, there were splatters, but all usable signals.  Many people listen to weak signals for reasons other than DX as a hobby.  They don't know they are DX'ers, they just like listening to their preferred station.

I listened to a clip posted today of WABC in HD, and while "Rock around the Clock" sounded OK, voice only is a disappointment.
It sounds as though Cousin Brucie has a huge loogie in his throat, and I keep waiting to hear him clear his throat.

I agree that the FM has legs and should be going places soon, but ibiquity insists it must be 24/7 on both AM and FM to be a success.
This seem like a childish hissy fit attitude on their part.
What works, works, what doesn't doesn't, and when you have a perfectly good horse, why beat a dead one?

[DavidEduardo]

I agree that the FM has legs and should be going places soon, but ibiquity insists it must be 24/7 on both AM and FM to be a success.
This seem like a childish hissy fit attitude on their part.
What works, works, what doesn't doesn't, and when you have a perfectly good horse, why beat a dead one?

AM is NOT a perfectly good horse. In most major markets, there are only a couple of viable AM stations... in fact, in some, like Washington, DC, there are none. The rest are not able to compete, and are relegated to doing niche formats and not going after mass audiences. The AM audience is growing older, and much of it is out of the ages that advertisers want, so the revenue base is declining.

Many major broadcasters, like Bonneville, Clear Channel, Cox and such are moving the only broadly viable major AM format, news talk, to FM to try to get better 35 to 54 year old listening.

AM has old listeners, has only a tiny share of the listening, and night listening is even a lesser part of total radio usage than daytime. Few AMs have decent signals given the growth of metro areas and urban / suburban sprawl. AM is dying, and even HD may not be enough to give new alternatives to the band. With so few competitive signals, and the move of major stations like KTAR, WTOP and even KSL (simulcast for the moment) to FM, HD may just be too late. In any case, doing the same thing as in the past is like that movie, "Groundhog Day." Radio has to try something different... especially for AM.

P.S. Neither WLW nor WGN have any interest in getting listening in Indianapolis. They derive no revenue from it, especially at night where there is no revenue to speak of.

[DavidEduardo]

Please forgive me but your statement (which I have read elsewhere under a different name is plain silly). Most AM stations do have more than a single transmitter. They don't however have 2 seperate processing chains or back-up antenna systems. Equipment fails all the time. IBOC is a work in progress. What Ibiquity is probably doing is finding out what the cause of the failure was so that hey can prevent it from re-occuring. Because AM IBOC's don't provide for seperate audio feeds and at this time the number of people listening to AM IBOC is relatively small, there is no need to have backup systems. How many times have stations lost their internet feeds and they eventuallly come back. Nobody says a thing, like why don't you have more than  one method of getting your feed on the net. Their IBOC encoder will return as soon as it's repaired. By the way, WABC went months without IBOC when their failed and it returned and has been working flawlessly since.

iBiquity does not make the HD exciters... companies like Harris and BE and Nautel do, under license. If one does not work (and it is usually due to incompatibilities with older transmitters) the station works with the transmitter equipment provider, not iBiquity.

Generally, AM directional stations have both a backup transmitter and a way to operate with lower power into a single tower. Significant ones in larger markets have multiple audio chains, as well as STL backup (ssuch as both a T1 and a microwave). But even with that, there are certain components, especially those related to the antenna tuning units and the phaser (for directional stations) that have no backup.

On the other hand, FMs often have backup sites, and multiple transmitters (one LA station I am "familiar" with has 3 transmitters in two buildings and three antennas on two towers, a generator and even a lower powered transmitter that can run on solar.) AM's biggest problem is the extrem cost of land for a tower and ground, and the limits on locations caused by co and adjacent channel protections.

[Tom Wells]

I agree that the FM has legs and should be going places soon, but ibiquity insists it must be 24/7 on both AM and FM to be a success.
This seem like a childish hissy fit attitude on their part.
What works, works, what doesn't doesn't, and when you have a perfectly good horse, why beat a dead one?

AM is NOT a perfectly good horse. In most major markets, there are only a couple of viable AM stations... in fact, in some, like Washington, DC, there are none. The rest are not able to compete, and are relegated to doing niche formats and not going after mass audiences. The AM audience is growing older, and much of it is out of the ages that advertisers want, so the revenue base is declining.

Many major broadcasters, like Bonneville, Clear Channel, Cox and such are moving the only broadly viable major AM format, news talk, to FM to try to get better 35 to 54 year old listening.

AM has old listeners, has only a tiny share of the listening, and night listening is even a lesser part of total radio usage than daytime. Few AMs have decent signals given the growth of metro areas and urban / suburban sprawl. AM is dying, and even HD may not be enough to give new alternatives to the band. With so few competitive signals, and the move of major stations like KTAR, WTOP and even KSL (simulcast for the moment) to FM, HD may just be too late. In any case, doing the same thing as in the past is like that movie, "Groundhog Day." Radio has to try something different... especially for AM.

P.S. Neither WLW nor WGN have any interest in getting listening in Indianapolis. They derive no revenue from it, especially at night where there is no revenue to speak of.

I was referring to FM HD as the perfectly good horse, and the AM HD as the dead horse.

AM analog is compromised by many decades of poor stewardship of the FCC and newer electronics' blatant noise generation.

I know the broadcasters have little-to-no interest in serving outside their market.

Listeners have an interest in radio's content, and particularly sports fans have complained about the 700/720 issue.             
If the FCC would like to help AM, getting the pt 15 unintentional radiators (even if only in new manufacture) to comply would be a fine place to start. Fine a few power companies that refuse to maintain distribution equipment.  Ban BPL.
Mandate AMAX receiver compliance in both analog and digital AM radios.
Mandate AMAX in AM stations.

AM could also use higher peak powers, with carrier control following the modulation envelope.
Every radio in consumer hands has AGC which should be able deal with the "swing".
I know some will distort, like the Delco AMs which can't even detect  the current +125% peaks without breaking up.

Heck, I could be satisfied if we just stayed where we are, but adding interference ANYWHERE intentionally is insane.