KMCQ files Minor Change for Cougar & KAFE, Bellingham files for 104.1 Mhz

[Shiny Knob]

They can't test from the Cougar site without authorization.

Yeah, and you can't drive over 60 on the freeway either. Yet, I once saw somebody doing it a couple of years ago.

It's not like they'd be the first to cheat the FCC to save a few dollars. There are stations in this market doing it right now, but I'm not going to name names.

But I really, truly want to know where they're actually testing from. Considering the amount of money it takes to establish a transmitter site, it's worth asking whether they're using a brand new installation in the hills above Enumclaw, or merely using lower power on one of the aux transmitters at Cougar for a few tests the seem like they're coming from the authorized place. It's not like anybody would be able to prove anything.

I just really want to know.


- Knobbly

[semoochie]

They have to send in the results of the test.  There are measurements to take from various locations within a certain distance of the antenna in multiple directions.  If the test results didn't relate to the correct antenna location, they would fail the test and probably lose their license for that station and any others they may have for lack of candor!

[TowerLamp]

And the FCC field office (Kirkland) has RDF equipment to locate direction of signals. Not a wise choice to fudge something like transmitter location. As a station undergoing a facility change you can bet they're "on the radar" at the moment.

[rockradio1017]

But it COULD happen..

[semoochie]

I don't see how anyone could possibly get away with it and to what end?  I don't think a prison term is out of the question!

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

...I don't think a prison term is out of the question!

Not if they use Paris Hilton's lawyer.

[Shiny Knob]

I was going to let the snowballing ignorance of these posts run their course and just walk away, but I really have to do some education here.

People are lying to the FCC right now in this town at real radio stations. It happens all the time. Nobody goes to prison for that. It's a nice white collar crime done by nice white people for their nice white corporate bosses.

The reason somebody might make tests from a site that isn't the one they have a CP for is to find out what the coverage will be like from the other site at a given power level. And if they aren't really planning to operate from the CP site anyway, there's no good reason to run the tests from there, considering that it costs money to build the transmitter site, and money is what this business is all about.

We know there are tuneable transmitters attached to wideband antennas on Cougar Mountain that are strictly backups for the main rig on Tiger Mountain. It would be fairly minor to power one of these up to any reduced power level and run a few discrete tests in the dark of the night.

I'm not saying this is what is happening with KMCQ. I'm just saying that it could happen, and I would really like to know if it is. Apparently everybody here knows even less about this than I do, which is really sad for all concerned.

And just to make it very clear. The KMCQ tests on 104.5 are not being done for the FCC. These are being done for corporate powers. The FCC has no requirements for field intensity measurements for non-directional FM stations. This information is not going to be filed with the FCC. It's going to Texas.

A simple "I don't know what the Hell I'm talking about, but here's my opinion from years of owning a CB set" would go a long way on this forum.

For those who believe the FCC is up at midnight waiting to catch a licensed broadcaster doing something marginally illegal, let me assure you that you're more likely to find the boogy man under your bed. The FCC doesn't have the manpower for this kind of craziness. Even if they caught somebody doing a semi-legal test, there's almost no chance that there is actually going to be enforcement action. It's not the kind of ongoing interference that annoys people enough to bother the FCC. And the FCC almost never swings into action unless there is a legitimate complaint filed for something that actually causes a problem and they figure they can win a conviction if it goes to court.

Thanks to 20 years of budget cuts, the FCC is a toothless old hound that will occasionally crap all over your carpet if you really annoy it. Nobody's going to prison for questionable engineering practices while working for a corporate broadcaster. But they will fine the Hell out of you if you really tick them off.

Call me crazy, but I really would like to know whether the KMCQ tests are originating from the Enumclaw site or from Cougar, FROM SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS.

Testing, 1 2 3, good buddy. Is this thing on?

[SeattleRadioPro]

Call me crazy, but I really would like to know whether the KMCQ tests are originating from the Enumclaw site or from Cougar, FROM SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS.

Testing, 1 2 3, good buddy. Is this thing on?

C'mon, don't be naive. You're not going to get the answer on this message board.

If you really want to get an answer - go make nice nice with one of the local engineers. Preferably one that does RF work. They're a pretty close-knit group, and I know from experience - there's no secrets.

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

Call me crazy, but I really would like to know whether the KMCQ tests are originating from the Enumclaw site or from Cougar, FROM SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS.

SBE Chapter 16, I believe, is a great resource for this.  ClayF is usually on top of what's happening in this market.  They have a website ... don't remember the addy but you're a google away.  That will give you some contacts who can point you in the right, credible direction.  Good luck.  If you get some interesting (and accurate) info I'm sure many of us would be curious here too!

[xmtrland]

Hey Knob, it’s obvious that you have no engineering skills. Driving on the FM highway 5% over modulation is one thing. Yea some stations do that. Public file violations are a given.

But you have no idea what it takes to make one of those wideband antenna systems works. You just don’t simply plug in transmitters. You need filters, stations need to be combined in a sequence to get to the antenna. Yes the transmitter might be easy to change frequency. But the combiner system for the master antenna is not so easily changed. 

You simply can’t change the antenna combiner over night to accommodate a secrete one or two hour test and then change it back. That would cost several thousands of dollars and require the backup plant to be off line for a day swapping filters in the combiner.

Also what station in their right mind would take their backup transmitter off line and risk their own license to do this. Not to mention the rest of the cluster of stations that the license has in the market. And if you think its some sneaky engineer, think again. Like I said retuning the antenna combiner is a huge job. It’s just not twisting a couple of dials.

The only station that is close to 104.5 is 103.7. And that backup plant is run by Clay Frienwald. And I know Clay does not play those games. Plus that antenna is directional.

Also there are several signals coming off of cougar at various power levels that could compare to what 104.5 would cover form Cougar. KCMS, KNHC and KWRM all run at less than 100kw erp. KNHC actually runs at 8.5KW erp, I would just compare that signal to what you might expect from 104.5. But it is directional.

The only master antenna on Cougar that is not directional is the one KPLZ, KUBE, KCMS, and KJR use. Just ask KCMS to drop to 8.1KW erp and you will know how 104.5 would play from that antenna. No need to actually retune anything to 104.5

Are you implying that 104.5 already built their plant on Cougar? Broadcasting from the tower in their CP modification to transmit from Cougar? A simple road trip to the hill would answer that. I don’t think they are that stupid. Other engineers in the market would not stand for that, let alone the consulting engineer. It would take very little effort for the FCC to drive up to Cougar to verify. The antenna hanging off the tower would be a dead give away.

It is real simple to move a two to four bay antenna and a small transmitter in a trailer anywhere you want. No need to retune a master antenna for an illegal test. The only cost would be the tower crew and engineer to unhook and re hook things. That would cost far less than getting the parts to modify a master antenna for an illegal test.

If I was the engineer for 104.5 and wanted to know how a non directional signal at 8.1 KW erp played off of Cougar I would ask KCMS to run at 8.1KW erp for a couple of hours at midnight, or just compare KNHC knowing that the signal to the south would be slightly better being non directional.

Here is the link to the SBE chapter 16 site. Email Clay yourself and ask him.
http://www.sbe16.org/

I hope I have made my point. Shiney Knob, you have no engineering skills.
Spend less time making that Knob Shiney and more time making the Knob knowledgeable before you speak. Owning a CB qualifies you for nothing in my book.