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Author Topic: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!  (Read 2697 times)
Double D
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2008, 09:07:52 PM »

manana

He has some very interesting music.  I have played other tracks.

nock

That's the one...great song...I'm not a fan of all chill music, but some of it is really good...songs like Manana really grab my attention...much like the JSJ featured  Late Night Sessions - Fluff - Vintage Chill Vol. 3: Autumn CD .
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"The .wav"    "The way things used to be.  The way they were meant to be.  Where memories last a lifetime."
Nock
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2008, 09:11:18 PM »


[/quote]
.songs like Manana really grab my attention...
[/quote]

I tend to play 3 - 4 Chill / Electronic tracks per hour.  I really look for the ones that will grab your attention.  Amazing how those are the tracks the listeners remember and email me about.

Nock
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Double D
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2008, 09:25:41 PM »


I tend to play 3 - 4 Chill / Electronic tracks per hour.  I really look for the ones that will grab your attention.  Amazing how those are the tracks the listeners remember and email me about.

Nock

And I'm sure your experience is also backed-up by the feedback JSJ receives from its Online Music Panel/Loyal Listener Surveys...I'm sure that's why they continue to feature a song like Late Night Sessions by Fluff...I'm sure it's likely a favorite of the Online Music Panel...it's too bad other  commercial other than JSJ don't understand/idnetify/acknowledge this!!  Huh Sad
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Nock
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2008, 09:36:19 PM »

Believe it or not, it was the Jones SM Jazz MD that hooked me on Chill.  She was involved with BLU 102 when they first hit the scene.

Nock
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Bill Harmonic
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2008, 01:09:45 PM »

I think the idea that people only come for tempo or texture is one of those "written in stone" axioms that is not true in all cases and at all times. Those axioms have done a lot of damage. It's like the axiom that mood is important and song is not. Downtempo, textured, moodscapes with no melodic substance for the listener to grab onto have been one of the most damaging elements of the BA approach over the years. Maybe, again, it comes from programming for listeners who listen to and come from pop/rock and want to hear instrumental music in that context rather than a more MOR/B-EZ type approach but lappealing to pop/rock listeners is the way to bring new listeners into the format. They want a variety of moods, tempos and textures and the wide open emotional canvas that songs without words can offer them and some vocal songs that are within their comfort zone but sound fresh and relatable rather than old, tired, and fried.  And they want infectuous hooks and songs they can grab onto in the process. I know some SJ guys who are "all mood all the time" more than song driven but their backgrounds tend to be B-EZ/MOR. Taking cues from a dead format is not a good idea unless you want to be a dying format.

This is not to say that that axiom does not have a glimmer of truth to it or that it is not entirely situational, although it most likely applies more to listeners who came in from traditional jazz background than CHR/AC/UAC but nothing can be written in stone anymore. These Axioms and assumptions that have been locked into traditional thinking for a long time have to be dismantled, reevaluated, and a "take what you need and leave the rest" approach applied to them according to what approach to the format a person is developing and what audience they are focusing on. If you take all the colors out of the rainbow but one it's not a rainbow anymore.

Shannon...you need to dial down the caffeine a bit and read what I wrote. I expect more from someone who writes about this stuff on a regular basis. I said that every smooth jazz listener has tempo and texture as a common ground to listen to a station or show. It's a starting point for the smooth jazz listening audience. After almost four decades of research, panels, one on one's and any other kind of listener interaction you can name that I've been involved with, that's a given. Not an axiom, just an observation of fourty years of playing this music and it's an observation that just about everyone mentions in their feedback if you ask the question. There's a part of the audience whether you like it or not that just don't know or really care who the sax players are or who sang whatever. Remember that this applies to a very small part of the audience but a part never the less and it moves or grows with how you program your station or show. The problem is it's the part that BA exploited when they decided to go after those P2's and that in turned killed the format because they were betting that the P1's would stick around because there was no place else to go for them. Wrong! It also has very little to do with where the listener came from into the smooth jazz format. Most of it is decided by who puts the mix together and where they came from and what they believe and what they want to showcase. That's the difference between what I do, or what Nock does, what you do on a show, or what you hear on "Chill" with Mindi Abair,or what's on "Quiet Music", or "Groove Boutique", or on and on and on. Some listeners want downtempo music. Others want their sounds uptempo. A portion wants new music. Some want a combination of it all but no matter what the course the host takes, tempo and texture is the entry way to a listeners enjoyment of this music. The same principle is also valid for just about every other music format out there. You're correct in saying that the traditional thinking has to be examined very closely and a lot of things need to be done differently, which is an understatement, but I believe that the tempo and texture thing still holds true for this type of music especially. Just an observation from talking to listeners before there was a format till now. Tempo and texture is the starting point for a very colorful rainbow. How you color in that rainbow defines the rest of the ballgame.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 01:12:30 PM by Bill Harmonic » Logged
AnotherCat
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2008, 09:58:30 PM »

Quote
There's a part of the audience whether you like it or not that just don't know or really care who the sax players are or who sang whatever.

This is very true that they don't care who is playing the instrument or singing the song. What they do care about is does the song itself grab them. It's like when "Lily Was Here" popped A/C. I was working A/C and retail at the time and all these people were coming in the store asking for that cool song with the sax and guitar. Obviously nobody was asking for Candy Dulfer. They heard a really interesting melody and latched onto it. Interesting melody, not interesting mood. I heard Boney's "After The Rain" while I was in a store today and that song just has a hook that won't stop. Same with Koz's "Together Again" Mindi's "Lucy's" or "True Blue" or Euge's "Get Em Goin." They grab you, not because of who is playing sax, but because they are tight, well written songs. I would find it hard to believe that an person would prefer ambient moodscapes or computer generated loops with aimless riffing laid on top to real songs like those (and many others).

Covers outperform  original instrumentals in music tests largely because of familiarity but the other thing about covers is that since they were originally pop songs they have the structure of pop songs, which is a plus (at least to me, probably not to people who are coming from a jazz perspective and want imrpovisation and a jazzy vibe). But original instrumentals can  have the structure of pop songs and be equally strong without having the baggage of sounding dated or nostalgic (remember, not all memories are good. The song you fell in love to is the one someone else got dumped to).

« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 10:01:28 PM by AnotherCat » Logged
Bill Harmonic
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2008, 08:58:40 AM »

Good post Cat.You're right on the money in that we have to play pop songs without words, no matter what the tempo or texture. The successful tunes need a melody and a hook and no endless solos. The balance is in finding those people who come from the pop side and those who come from the mainstream side, which are the extremes, and give them something they can enjoy along with those of us who make up the majority of the middle. Kind of like politics. Excellent point on the covers but you have to be very careful because a lot of the covers today do not carry the same passion as the originals. A great cover for me is Richard Elliot's "When A Man Loves A Woman" (take away the burn) and a terrible one is Pete Escovedo's "All This Love" with its cheesy background vocals and lame arrangement. By the way, the mainstream players also did a fair amount of covers, so its not something totally out of bounds for the format. There's a place for the ambient moodscapes and Forest does a show called Musical Starstreams which has been on a long time. It's an acquired taste but there is an audience for it. He also does the Ambient channel for RadioIO.Com. There's some great stuff there but also a ton that's even past my threshold. There are so many avenues we can explore with this music but we better make sure that we are out there doing it. Finding the right mix for what we want to play and also exploring the avenues that are open to us to get this music heard.
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AnotherCat
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2008, 09:59:51 AM »

If the format powers-that-be had focused on strong songs they would not have had to rely on covers as an anchor for the format. Of course they are going by the numbers and the highest testing scores usually come from covers and pop crossovers. That's an intrinsic bias in the research method. But the shift toward ambient instrumentals like the "Acid Jazz" and Third Force 90s (3Rd Force later got back to melody and  hooks..and no airplay), Soul Ballet, Hardcastle, and noodly instrumentals then Chill did a lot of damage too. Chill is like spice, if you dump a whole jar full onto the music mix rather than just a shake or two it can shift the whole mix into something weird and uninteresting. I tend to believe that if the majority of a station's response songs are coming from chill they may need to go deeper in mining tracks from real SJ projects because there are songs from our artists' CDs that are stronger and more interesting including some that have the chill groove but with more melodic substance. The strong stuff tends to come at the end of the CDs though. They litereally hide them from BA, knowing that a BA programmer won't listen that deep that they get to track 8 or 9. This is not to say take the chill out entirely but
do we really have to jump through every hoop that Frank Cody holds in the air. His days as a tastemaker should be waning by now.

I think what would be cool is if people like me, Bill, and Nock could do a site like that Smooth Jazz TV guy has put up, except all the channels were programmed by different people instead of the same guy so you got a lot of different approaches. Live 365 has that going on but it is soooo hard to teach people how to find the stations, especially since a lot of B-EZ and MOR stations are using smooth jazz as one of their tags.
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Bill Harmonic
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2008, 06:37:41 PM »

I'm ready from this end and will look into it. What a great idea! A smooth jazz site with many different looks and feel. That will get people to the net.
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Nock
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Re: Will Smooth Jazz radio eventually die? Lets hope not!
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2008, 07:32:17 PM »

I'm ready from this end and will look into it. What a great idea! A smooth jazz site with many different looks and feel. That will get people to the net.

Then each works their network of contacts to bring folks to the site.

Nock
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