Springer lukewarm on hometown blowtorch

[bierkenstock]

From RadioDailyNews.com

Jerry Springer's radio talk show is hardly setting the city or the country on fire.  Likewise the new liberal talk station WCKY-AM (1530), launched in January with Springer as its star attraction, remains barely a blip on the local ratings radar... Read complete article - Cincinnati Post

Even with a 50kw clear channel signal and a strong local host (Jerry Springer), WCKY 1530 has sluggish ratings with progressive talk, according to this article.  Ratings are down since it's first book with progressive talk and down even more compared to the station's previous Real Oldies format.  The article reports a small increase in the money demos.

The article neglects to mention the station carries Ed Schultz in PM drive but is hobbled during the crucial AM drive period with AAR's lame "Morning Perdition."  Possibly, the station would do better having Springer do a local show in morning drive and then feed his syndicated show to AAR and Springer's other affiliates, while WCKY takes Stephanie Miller. (Thom Hartmann has an arrangement like this in Portland, OR).

Unfortunately, Arbitron defines dayparts in a way that does not correspond to the way talk radio stations schedule programs.  Arbitron's midday daypart is 10am to 2pm.  It's impossible to say to what extent Springer pulls up Franken and Franken drags down Springer.  (Same applies to Rush and Beck.)

Interestingly, Springer seems to do better in Cleveland where is on the same station as Rush.

The article also indicates Franken is moving to Minnesota in January and plans to keep doing his show while he runs for the Senate (which would keep him off the air on two stations in the current station line-up).  Since running for statewide office takes a lot of time and travel, we can expect a lot of subs or best-of segments next year.  AAR (IMHO) is dumb to go along with this and it will be interesting to see whether stations start putting Hartmann (or Miller or Press on delay, or somebody else - maybe somebody local) into Franken's time slot.

[Phillip Dampier]

> The article also indicates Franken is moving to Minnesota in
> January and plans to keep doing his show while he runs for
> the Senate (which would keep him off the air on two stations
> in the current station line-up).

More important will be what happens if he wins.  That will end the Al Franken Show and I don't see Kathryn running it.  Does this make Jerry Springer the new "star" of AAR?  He's still got better name recognition than Randi Rhodes.

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> From RadioDailyNews.com
>
> Jerry Springer's radio talk show is hardly setting the city
> or the country on fire.  Likewise the new liberal talk
> station WCKY-AM (1530), launched in January with Springer as
> its star attraction, remains barely a blip on the local
> ratings radar... Read complete article - Cincinnati Post
>
>
> Even with a 50kw clear channel signal and a strong local
> host (Jerry Springer), WCKY 1530 has sluggish ratings with
> progressive talk, according to this article.  Ratings are
> down since it's first book with progressive talk and down
> even more compared to the station's previous Real Oldies
> format.  The article reports a small increase in the money
> demos.
>
> The article neglects to mention the station carries Ed
> Schultz in PM drive but is hobbled during the crucial AM
> drive period with AAR's lame "Morning Perdition."  Possibly,
> the station would do better having Springer do a local show
> in morning drive and then feed his syndicated show to AAR
> and Springer's other affiliates, while WCKY takes Stephanie
> Miller. (Thom Hartmann has an arrangement like this in
> Portland, OR).
>
> Unfortunately, Arbitron defines dayparts in a way that does
> not correspond to the way talk radio stations schedule
> programs.  Arbitron's midday daypart is 10am to 2pm.  It's
> impossible to say to what extent Springer pulls up Franken
> and Franken drags down Springer.  (Same applies to Rush and
> Beck.)
>
> Interestingly, Springer seems to do better in Cleveland
> where is on the same station as Rush.

Not that interesting--Cleveland as a market is more liberal than the Cincinnati market.  BUT, Springer is WAY DOWN in Cleveland compared to Glenn Beck, who he replaced.

But, maybe this news article will quell some of the "well, they don't have good signals" talk from the AAR-niks.  Both WCKY and WTAM are 50kw blowtorches--in fact, WTAM is the premier news talk station in Cleveland.  So, is it liberal talk that's the problem, or is it the hosts?  

I suggest the latter.

[Scribbler]

> But, maybe this news article will quell some of the "well,
> they don't have good signals" talk from the AAR-niks.  Both
> WCKY and WTAM are 50kw blowtorches--in fact, WTAM is the
> premier news talk station in Cleveland.  So, is it liberal
> talk that's the problem, or is it the hosts?  
>
> I suggest the latter.

Hmm. Once upon a time it was common wisdom in the radio business that it took at least a year for a talk format to catch on.  Now, the common wisdom in the anti-AAR crowd is that if a station doesn't immediatly catch fire in its first full book after a flip from oldies or standards to progressive talk, then it's doomed.  And in the case of WTAM, you've got a liberal (Springer) sandwiched among a lineup of right-wing hosts.  I thought it was also common wisdom that such a lineup can't work -- that you've either got to be all-conservative or all-liberal or all-whatever to be successful in today's marketplace.

[Sound__Salvation]

> From RadioDailyNews.com
>


> The article also indicates Franken is moving to Minnesota in
> January and plans to keep doing his show while he runs for
> the Senate (which would keep him off the air on two stations
> in the current station line-up).  Since running for
> statewide office takes a lot of time and travel, we can
> expect a lot of subs or best-of segments next year.  AAR
> (IMHO) is dumb to go along with this and it will be
> interesting to see whether stations start putting Hartmann
> (or Miller or Press on delay, or somebody else - maybe
> somebody local) into Franken's time slot.

I believe that Franken's planned Senate campaign will be 2008, not next year, which gives AAR substantial time to prepare for the change.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Laura Flanders moving into his spot, but the decision is years away, and the outlook could be completely different at that point.

[Scribbler]

> I believe that Franken's planned Senate campaign will be
> 2008, not next year, which gives AAR substantial time to
> prepare for the change.  I wouldn't be surprised to see
> Laura Flanders moving into his spot, but the decision is
> years away, and the outlook could be completely different at
> that point.

Republican Norm Coleman is the senator who Franken would run against, and Coleman's term doesn't end until January 2009 -- so he'll be up for re-election in November 2008, not "next year."  And Franken hasn't said he will run -- all he's said is that he's considering it. And of course even if he decides to "run," it's not at all certain that he could even win his party's nomination.  It could well be that some other Democrat would be far ahead of Franken in the polls in 2008 and Franken would decide against even trying to get the Dem nomination.

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> > But, maybe this news article will quell some of the "well,
>
> > they don't have good signals" talk from the AAR-niks.
> Both
> > WCKY and WTAM are 50kw blowtorches--in fact, WTAM is the
> > premier news talk station in Cleveland.  So, is it liberal
>
> > talk that's the problem, or is it the hosts?  
> >
> > I suggest the latter.
>
> Hmm. Once upon a time it was common wisdom in the radio
> business that it took at least a year for a talk format to
> catch on.  Now, the common wisdom in the anti-AAR crowd is
> that if a station doesn't immediatly catch fire in its first
> full book after a flip from oldies or standards to
> progressive talk, then it's doomed.  And in the case of
> WTAM, you've got a liberal (Springer) sandwiched among a
> lineup of right-wing hosts.  I thought it was also common
> wisdom that such a lineup can't work -- that you've either
> got to be all-conservative or all-liberal or all-whatever to
> be successful in today's marketplace.

If it's good enough to be quoted here that AAR and liberal talk is succeeding in Portland and other places after only a book (or two), then the opposite may also be quoted as rebuttal.

I am anti-AAR because it's bad radio.  I'm not anti-liberal talk.  I happen to like Ed Schultz alot, and ditto for Lionel.  If done in a good radio way, with decent hosts who can entertain, then I think it's good for listeners and good for political discourse to have lib talk.

I never said anything was doomed.  Is AAR doomed--yes, because it's a bad operation.  Is liberal talk doomed?  No, because within that wide array of discussion, there are lots of talented hosts.  Some are on AAR.

Jerry Springer isn't one of them.

And as for WTAM: here's what he's sandwiched between.

5am-9am: Wills and Coleman. A drive time show, with full news every 30 minutes, traffic and weather every 10 minutes, sports at 20 after and 20 til the hour, news updates at 15/45, Wall Street Journal Report at 50, plus commercials.  Where's the right wing?

11.30am-12pm: Mid-Day Report.  A full 1/2 hour of news, sports, traffic, weather, WSJ Report.  Done by WTAM reporters and anchors.

12.00pm-3pm: Rush Limbaugh. Ok, HE'S right wing.  There's the first one.

[Scribbler]

> If it's good enough to be quoted here that AAR and liberal
> talk is succeeding in Portland and other places after only a
> book (or two), then the opposite may also be quoted as
> rebuttal.

My point was that it often takes a year or more for a drastic switch from music to talk to work. KPOJ's AAR + Schultz programming was a success almost from the start, 16 months ago, but that was an unusual situation. WABC in New York struggled for years after switching from music to talk. WCKY switched in January and there's been only one full book since then.

> 12.00pm-3pm: Rush Limbaugh. Ok, HE'S right wing.  There's
> the first one.

And not the last.  My point was that WTAM has long been known as a conservative talk station and is still overwhelmingly conservative.  Drop a lone liberal into the lineup, replacing a conservative, and you can't expect much, especially after only a few months.
 

Edited by Scribbler on 08/16/05 06:13 PM.

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> > If it's good enough to be quoted here that AAR and liberal
>
> > talk is succeeding in Portland and other places after only
> a
> > book (or two), then the opposite may also be quoted as
> > rebuttal.
>
> My point was that it often takes a year or more for a
> drastic switch from music to talk to work. KPOJ's AAR +
> Schultz programming was a success almost from the start, 16
> months ago, but that was an unusual situation. WABC in New
> York struggled for years after switching from music to talk.
> WCKY switched in January and there's been only one full book
> since then.
>
> > 12.00pm-3pm: Rush Limbaugh. Ok, HE'S right wing.  There's
> > the first one.
>
> And not the last.  My point was that WTAM has long been
> known as a conservative talk station and is still
> overwhelmingly conservative.  Drop a lone liberal into the
> lineup, replacing a conservative, and you can't expect much,
> especially after only a few months.

WAS long known.  After 3pm is Mike Trivisonno, whose known views are pro-gambling, anti-tax, pro-worker, anti-idiocy.  And that's when he's not talking sports.  He's been PM drive since 1997.

At 7pm it's either Indians baseball, Cavs basketball, or sports talk until 11pm.

11pm-5am is Coast to Coast AM with whoever it is now.

Weekends: Saturday 6am-9am: Bob Becker (a moderate-liberal)
Gardening, Home Repair, etc. to noon.

12pm-3pm: The Weekend, with Mike McConnell (ok, another conservative)
3pm-6pm: Sports talk (or baseball--if baseball, sports talk until nighttime)
Overnights weekends--Coast to Coast AM Weekend

Sunday: Obligatory religious programming AMs, sports Sunday afternoons.

8pm-11pm: Art McKoy, President of Black on Black Crime, Inc.  He's a liberal, kids.

11pm-1am: Drudge (ok, there's another one).

So, while you may have this old idea that WTAM is conservative, it used to be.  But within the past two to three years, it's become decidedly POLITICAL, yes.  But not one party or ideology.  Oh, and this is only when it's not sports season: which is rare, because WTAM is flagship for all three major teams.

[KJCB]

> case of WTAM, you've got a liberal (Springer) sandwiched among a
> lineup of right-wing hosts.  I thought it was also common
> wisdom that such a lineup can't work -- that you've either
> got to be all-conservative or all-liberal or all-whatever to
> be successful in today's marketplace.

That's not an excuse. That's nonsense from the AAR crowd. CC doesn't care if Rush sings Latvian polka for three hours if it delivers results, even being sandwiched between talkradio. Saying Jerry Springer should get a pass because he's a liberal on a conservative station (outside of Rush, please show me a real conservative on WTAM) is unacceptable. He has to rise to the challenge or he'll get canned. Kevin Metheny (allegedly) doesn't care about ideology (just his hatred for Glenn Beck), he cares about the billing numbers he reports to San Antonio. And he can't submit an addendum explaining declining sales with "We just wanted a liberal show".